i'm trying to back up a dual layer movie to a verbatim MKM 001 disc with my BenQ DW1640 BSLB.

i ripped with DVD Decrypter and burnt it with ImgBurn (ISO Read, ISO write). I burnt one and at the layer break, i had a huge PIF spike at around the layer break that peaked at 60+ PIF; after that, it was fine though. I also did a transfer test and there was a big dip at around the layer break but again, after the layer break, the graph was smooth.

I burnt another disc (what a waste) and it had the same PIF spike and same dip in the transfer test at the exact same spot.

few questions:
1. is ImgBurn and DVD Decrypter not good for dual layer burning? (ie they dont seem to handle the layer break very well) - should i use Nero for my dual layer burning instead?

2. is it my burners fault causing the spikes at the layer break?

3. is it normal to get PIF spikes and dips in the transfer tests at the layer break?

edit: i should also note that the playback was fine on my dvd player (i think).

1. ImgBurn is fine. I've used it for several DL. In fact, that's one of the improvements over DVDD.

2. Probably not.

3. Yes. But you may be able to minimize it.

Look for skips at the LB. Jumping to the next cell or chapter is common.


Very important: What speeds are you burning them at? 2.4 is best...by far.

Do some research into PgcEdit. http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=37229
This program works with (by design) ImgBurn in placing the layer break at the ideal spot. Nero tends to goof it up so don't go that route. It's quite the learning curve, but great when you get it down. Look for my recent posts over there too. I've asked a few questions.

hmm, well heres some pics.

Was this burn at 2.4x?

How was LB set?

info please.

it was burned at 4x but ive burnt my previous 3 at 2.4x too with even WORSE results.

what do you mean how was the LB set? is there a specific setting for scanning dual layer media? or do you mean in DVD Decrypter/ImgBurn?

How was the layer break set, as I wrote in my 1st post.

DMA on?
Master or Slave placement
Turned other processes off during burning?

i still dont understand what you mean by how was the layer break set.

DMA is on, set to master, proccesses off during burning. I'm not a n00b =].

also, ignore the SMALL dips in the transfer rate test. Those are probably from running Azureus in the background while scanning. Also, the first time i scanned the disc, my PIF peak was at 50-60. This time it was only 29, but thats still high.

Where/how did you set/place/enter the layer break?? Did you simply let DVDDecrypter do it for you?

How did you author the movie?

I can't tell a newbie by just typed words. Just clarifying a few things.

Took some working, but got mine to this fairly regularly:

ohh, i just let DVD Decrypter do it for me. Is that bad?

it wasnt authored, it was simply ripped in ISO mode with DVD Decrypter and burned with ImgBurn.

i guess i am a n00b when it comes to dual layer burning because i didnt know you could set the dual layer break.

Yup. Read all about LB placement in the above link. Get out the box of Tylenol first though. Heh

I never do 1 to 1 copies myself. I always author them with DVD Shrink or Nero Recode (same program).

I have also read that certain IDE drivers don't work to well with DL burning. NVidia maybe?? Search on that and see what you find.

What about defragging? I always defrag before burning!

just defragged lastnight actually.

i know about the compatibility issues with nvidia nforce ide drivers. i just have the microsoft IDE drivers.

ill read that link, thanks. I didnt know this was necessary... that kinda sucks.

May not be necessary with 1 to 1 copy. But PgcEdit does some other things to help too.

Defrag before every burn! Especially if you have just decrypted and/or authored. 8GB of fragged files can make for a nasty burn.

Let me chip in a bit. From the scans, the PIE, PIF and Transfer Rate started showing problems not at layer break, but around 3.2GB which is far away from the layer break 3.9GB. The media probably?

well, thats what i think but ive had problems with 2 different packs bought several months after the other. The chances of getting 2 bad packs in a row is really rare. I dont want to waste another one (my last one).

ive spoken with Verbatim and they said they would send me 6 new ones although, after theyve seen my scans, they think its software related. They better send me those discs still.

Since with 3 attempt have had no success in burning trouble free double layer I am not in a position to give a rational advise but some people in this forum believe that DVD Decrypter is better way for burning D/L disk if you have the right disk (namely Verbatim).

TCAS. Do you mean instead of ImgBurn? LighteningUK developed both. The newer being ImgBurn. I suppose you know that already. Supposedly ImgBurn is better for DL. It's all I've used. I suppose that I would try DVDD too if things were not going right though.

I can't help but think that if the LB was not in the correct place, that maybe that would happen.(?)

come to think of it, there shouldnt be a "correct" spot for the layer break as there are programs (DVD Decrypter included) that allow you to move the layer break to wherever you want.

I have my DVD Decrypter and ImgBurn at the default settings (Calculate Optimal). I've also used DVD Decrypter AND ImgBurn to burn to same data and both had the same problems (although the one burned with ImgBurn had a little better results).

i'm narrowing it down to the fact that im unlucky and i recieved 2 bad batches in a row, or DVD Decrypter had problems ripping the layer break or something similar which i doubt, or possibly my drive is faulty and is having problems writing dual layer media.

btw Pinran, the scan you posted, was that a pressed double layer DVD that you ripped and burned 1:1?

1. Actually, not wherever you want, but within a certain area. For instance. Side 0 must be larger (even slightly) than side 1, and not to close to the edge, where die problems can occur. So yes, to a degree at least, where you place the LB is important. It must be divisible by 16 also.

2. The original DVD was a Next Generation (Star Trek) disk with 4 episodes. My blank is your basic Verbatim DL disk. Pack of 3 from Staples. MKM 001 is the MID (Mitsubishi)

I authored it though, through DVD Shrink.

ahh. i know for a fact that DVDShrink removes the original layer break if you shrink it to a SL disc. It probably removed the original layer break and (assuming you used DVD Decrypter or ImgBurn to burn) i'm guessing it added the optimal spot for the layer break, thus not having a huge spike like me.

edit: maybe not. i remember doing the same thing with my old NEC 3520 (iso read/iso write) but there wasnt a big spike at the layer break.

ahh, much better. burnt at 4x with WOPC on. not the greatest results, but definitely MUCH better than my previous attempts.

i ran the ISO image through DVDShrink just to remove the layer break. I wish DVD Decrypter could do this while ripping to your harddrive. I think im gonna use AnyDVD with DVDShrink to rip to my harddrive now.

I always remove the LB for both SL and DL. For SL you simply don't need it, and for DL, after authoring it needs to be in a different place (perhaps). Thus using PgcEdit which tells you the best place to put it. I never let any program place it by itself anymore. Too many bad LB's that way. They may burn fine, but skip or stutter.

Note. You can tell Shrink not to remove the LB in the preferences. I don't advise this.

PgcEdit also adds 32k of space between the vob's, to keep them standard. Nero and most others will take this space out.

I also leave WOPC on always, for obvious reasons.

i wonder though, ive read that many people just do ISO Read/ISO Write and they say they dont have any problems. But i wonder if they actually did error/tranfer rate tests to see their results. Even though my results were so bad, playback was fine.

if anyone did an ISO Read/ISO Write with DVD Decrypter to a DVDR DL disc, could you post your error test results?

As long as you let dvd decrypter make a MDS file along with reading the ISO, you should be fine. The MDS files will have the correct layer break info for DVD.D. or imageburn. PCGedit has a bunch of other options to edit the structure of the iso.