Check it out here: http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/146

Sorry for the delay, but I'm really short on time for reviewing at the moment + I've been sick for a while.

As always - comments welcomed.

Am I lucky to be the first to post a reply here?

The negative points listed at the end of the review are:

None of the above seems to be a problem to me, making a perfect choice.

hmmm, I still own a Philips 8x CD-R writer which still works fine but I've always disliked Philips slow firmware upgrade policy, so I suggest the BenQ DW830A instead. However, I've heard rumors that it won't be avaiable in Europe while the Philips already is.

Tor, in your review you state:

"Perfect K-Probe result, but the reading curve shows some problems at the end. The reading problems at the end is normal with all Mitsubishi DVD+R media when written at 8x, we guess the media quality is simply not good enough near the edge."

I know it's your review, and you are entitled to say what you want, but this statement is just plain incorrect.

There are just too many variables in play here for you to come to this decision.

The KProbe scan shows very low PI / PO error count, indicating a satisfactory burn, you even say "Perfect K-Probe result". The transfer test shows some slowdown at read speeds close to 16X, and on the basis of this you make a sweeping generalisation that ALL Mitsubishi DVD+R media is not good enough near the edge,

"The reading problems at the end is normal with all Mitsubishi DVD+R media when written at 8x"

Generalisations like this should not appear in any reviews, because you are simply propagating incorrect information.

Further down the same page of the review, you test RICOHJPNR02 media, the KProbe and Transfer rate test results are very similar to the Mitsubishi MCC003 media, and you go on to say:

"Not perfect as there is some reading problems near the end, but still very good and recommended media."

Your review clearly lacks consistency, some of your conclusions aren't based on facts, just suppositions.

I still maintain that the review should be taken with a grain of salt.

The comment about verbatim DVD+R media is based on my general experience with this media with all writers.

Both the 4x DVD+R and 8x DVD+R media that is made in India or Singapore fails to read back perfect at 16x speed when written at 8x in all writers I've tested them in.

For ricoh it depends more on writers as they read back perfect at 16x in many cases

Nice reply.

But:

You've missed my point.

The burns are OK, it's only the difference between the 832S (that KProbed) and the 165H (that did transfer speed) that you can comment about. The 832 drive sees this disk as a good burn, right out to the outer edge.

The MC003 disc you tested is well within spec, and I'm sure it plays or reads in close to 100% of DVD drives(notice I didn't say ALL).

If the RICOH disc is fit for consumption, then so is the Mitsubishi.

However:

If you perform a bad sector scan and unrecoverable errors appear, then you could say that "this media will likely cause you problems".

Most people are aware that there's a lot of difference between reading a disc at 16x(CDSpeed) and reading it at 4x (Kprobe). Drawing conclusions about one test based on the results of the other is not logical. 2 completely different things are being looked at. OC is merely trying to put the discs through as thorough a reading test as possible. Not everyone will agree that the transfer rate test is a good indicator of "read-ability", but as OC has more experience at it than most, I would allow that he feels comfortable with making those conclusions. Personally, I see nothing to argue with. I guess some folks just like to argue.

I wonder if maybe the outcome of the review is what someone is dissatisfied with? In any case, I would suggest that if one is able to create and publish a more objective and thorough review, he should do so. Sitting on the sidelines and sniping at others just looks kind of silly. Especially when your arguments don't hold water. OC's not the one comparing apples and oranges.

rdgrimes, OC

1. A sweeping generalisation was made: to quote OC-Freak
"we guess the media quality is simply not good enough near the edge."

The important word in this quotation is GUESS

2. OC-Freak went on to say:
"The comment about verbatim DVD+R media is based on my general experience with this media with all writers"

This is fine, but should have been qualified in the review, rather than a blanket statement that the Mitsubishi discs aren't good enough, especially when he guessed in the first place.


Oh, and rdgrimes, if you think that I sit on the sidelines and snipe, then all I can say to you is that you should have a close look at some of your own actions. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

That's more like it!

But it's a damn good guess, methinks. OC has years of experience with all sorts of media on all sorts of burners, and I think that this is a good guess. Unless we step into a Princo factory and observe with our own eyes what goes on, all we can say is that our relentless bashing of Princo is just a (very well-educated) guess based on experience. Same idea, taken to the extreme.

Yea, maybe it would've been better if such a statement was qualified, but nobody's perfect, and if you look at the other reviews on the web, the vast majority of them are much worse. So perhaps before you call for a grain of salt, you need to learn to take a grain of context.

Furthermore, don't you think that it's a funny coincidence that all the faster-than-8x drives (including LiteOn, in their newer firmware revisions) all just happened to not allow overspeeding of MCC003? They all allow overspeeding of Ricoh or TY, but nothing for MCC003. Hmm, maybe the drive companies are wild guessers now?

So before you go off on your little holy crusade, why don't you do some extensive tests of your own with various batches of MCC003 on various drives and see how all that goes?

Hi code, nice of you to join the discussion.

We weren't talking about overclocking media at all, I don't know why you mention this, it's got no relevance at all to the discussion I was having with OC-Freak.

Just because it doesn't overclock to 12X and Ricoh and TY do, that doesn't justify what OC-Freak wrote.

I'll say it clearly and unequivocally this time, I want the FACTS, when I read a review, not guesses or gut feelings, just the FACTS.

Opinions should be reserved for the forums.

Is that too much to ask?

This is out of hand and it should not be this way. Stop the aggro and personal attacks.

Last weekend I read in a German PC magazine (c't), that they experienced the same problem with MCC media regardless of the used burner. And they tested the discs with a professional CATS system. This is something OC-Freak unfortunately doesn't have, so he can only rely on the results he get with his test methods. And as you probably know, PI and PO are not the only values that need to be within a specific range when you burn a DVD and some tests already showed that KProbe/CD Speed results often show more how good your reader is than they show the quality of a written disc.
But if you want to donate a CATS system for OC-Freak, it will probably be very welcome

I have made my points, and the moderators have generously allowed them to be viewed.

I will not reply further, it would only result in further vitreole or more personal attacks.

I just wanted to add what I've read last weekend.

PS: We're all human (except for some monkeys), so making mistakes should be allowed.