I have said this many times, so I only will say it once more...

AnyDVD is an "in place" decrypter. It is designed
1.) To watch movies on a media center / home theater pc
2.) To make the media "look" unprotected for the operating system (sharing discs on the network) and all applications.

It does a lot of things this way (removing region protection, cracking CSS, changing subtitles, changing navigation, eliminating error sectors) in a very short time (it scans the disc only a few seconds).
It does remove the structural protections from the .IFO files on the fly. In fact, it is - to my knowledge - the *only* program left, which does this.
DVD43 gave up (it does DeCSS only now), and it looks like DVDIdle & DVD Css+Regionfree gave up, too. (they were never updated for the new protections)

An important thing to remember: AnyDVD was never designed to be a ripper (a program that copies files or an image from the disc). AnyDVD is designed to be an extension to the operating system (it is recommended to be running all the time)

In place decryption is very nice, because you don't have to rip the disc first. This is especially true for Blu-ray & Co. Ripping a 50GB disc takes ages...

In place decryption is tricky, and it has some technical limitations:
1.) Changing the directory structure is difficult
2.) Fixing .vob files is impossible, because:
a) AnyDVD would need to read the whole disc. You don't want to wait 15 minutes for the disc to be available in Windows Explorer!
b) AnyDVD cannot change the physical layout of the disc. It cannot physically "cut out" sectors in front of a file.

Now for the "AnyDVD ripper" (both HD & normal one):
They are kludges. They were born because of
1.) Users asking "where is the copy button?"
2.) HD ripper: UDF2.5 filesystem not available on Windows 2000 & XP
3.) DVDShrink users complaining
4.) CloneDVD's problems with invalid navigation packs (fixed in the meantime with CloneDVD's "repairing defective DVD structure" mechanism)

I believe they both shouldn't be part of the program, but separate executables (they both were integrated into AnyDVD only to make the download size small).

The current situation:
1.) AnyDVD removes the protection very well. It works with the newest protection (SawIII & Co.) with every software (yes, even Nero Recode!) except Shrink "full disc mode" *on the fly* without using the AnyDVD ripper.

2.) Due to the technical limitations of "on the fly decrypting" it will probably never work with Shrink without ripping to hard disk first on the newest protections.

3.) If you need to copy to harddisk anyway, you could use any program to do this, which changes the files in a way that makes Shrink happy.
This includes RipIt4me, DVDFabDecrypter, VOBBlanker and - of course - CloneDVD. (There may be others I don't know about)
Using CloneDVD is the fastest (and IMHO best) way to do this, as you can preselect the titles you want to copy. This could reduce compression and boost the picture quality.
RipIt4me is probably the slowest, but you can check out yourself.

Future:
For technical reasons, I want to separate the ripper(s) from AnyDVD. Maybe they can use shared DLLs to keep the code size small.
We can't remove them, because many people got used to them, and it is hard to explain why a new version has less features than the previous.

I will try to improve the DVD ripper so Shrink will be happy again. But I say "try", because I sometimes have no clue why Shrink is complaining (in other words - its error handling sucks).
You see messages like "Invalid navigation structure" (well that's the most informative), "not enough storage space to process this command" (huh?) or "VTS... missing" (but it's there?).
What is the program trying to tell me? Speak to me, oh Shrink, so I can make the files nice and shiny for you.
But enough rambling, that's my problem, not yours.

In other words, yes, we will try to keep Shrink happy. But it will be in some form of "ripper" (not on the fly), so you're probably better off using CloneDVD to do the job of the ripper *now* (and benefit of CloneDVD's capabilities combined with Shrink's wonderful compression).

My 2cents worth...

The fact is that AnyDVD is working with virtually every program, just not with DVDShrink because Shrink so strictly requires DVD compliant files.

There are many, many alternative workarounds so that users can impliment the use of DVDShrinks' compression abilities. So all this is much ado about nada....

I truly believe that Slysoft has made some sort of effort in getting AnyDVD to work with DVDShrink, but can we really expect them to do this??? I don't think so, since they have their own programs and could easily just say they only support their programs.

All that being said...it would however be finacially beneficial for Slysoft if they could get AnyDVD to work for the thousands and thousands of Shrink users, who may otherwise go for one of those alternative methods, which may not involve anything from the Slysoft collection...

I would like to compliment all the contributing members on how remarkably civil this thread remained.

James,
I sensed from context what the word "kludges" meant. But I had to look it up anyway. Funny ... it sounds so Yiddish, I assumed it was a New York thing.

kludge or kluge (kl¡j) noun
Slang.
A system, especially a computer system, that is constituted of poorly matched elements or of elements originally intended for other applications.
[Origin unknown.]
- kludge verb
- kludg´y adjective
Word History: The word kludge is not "etymologist-friendly," having many possible origins, none of which can be definitively established. This term, found frequently in the jargon of the engineering and computer professions, denotes a usually workable but makeshift system, modification, solution, or repair. Kludge has had a relatively short life (first recorded in 1962 although it is said to have been used as early as 1944 or 1945) for a word with so many possible origins. The proposed sources of the word, German klug, kluge, "intelligent, clever," or a blend of klutz and nudge or klutz and refudge, do not contain all the necessary sounds to give us the word, correctly pronounced at least. The notions that kludge may have been coined by a computer technician or that it might be the last name of a designer of graphics hardware seem belied by the possibility that it is older than such origins would allow. It seems most likely that the word kludge originally was formed during the course of a specific situation in which such a device was called for. The makers of the word, if still alive, are no doubt unaware that etymologists need information so they can stop trying to "kludge" an etymology together.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from InfoSoft International, Inc. All rights reserved.LOL ... that one is NOT in the dictionary! BTW, I never got a chance to say "nice try" with your script that attempted to get a current version of FixVTS to interface with AnyDVD. I don't understand why not either, but it was a great idea to have it interface separately from AnyDVD "proper". It would have been slow, to be sure, but it would have pleased our Shrink friends. If it could be made to work, do you think there would be licensing issues?

Best regards,
Whisperer

I, for one, applaud the effort. Even though I don't use Shrink, I'm glad to see Slysoft has not abandoned Shrink users.

Someone here claims ripping with Clonedvd2 and importing the rip into Shrink won't work:

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=2059&page=3

No, "automagically" is not in the dictionary, but, I'm a software engineer so I absolutely LOVE that word. And yea, I *REALLY* was hoping that FixVTS script idea was going to pan out. I really want a GOOD solution for Shrink users, but, for whatever reason it just didn't work. The reason I went that route and asked James to interface with the exe instead of using the source was because of the licensing issue. You can include the exe no problem, but, if you use the source, you have to provide the source of whatever program uses it. That's obviously not beneficial for Slysoft. But there's no problem including the exe at all. So, I really was hoping against hope that we had found a good compromise there, but, it just didn't work out that way. I may play with it again and see if I can figure out what's going on there. Cause if I can figure it out, this would be good for everyone.

FixVTS is supposed to make is to the DVD can be opened by DVD Shrink. If it does not work, then there's a bug/flaw in FixVTS and I would like to know about it... What DVD was that? How did you rip it? Could you possibly send me the IFOs (the ones that wouldn't open in Shrink after running FixVTS)? Thanks
Jeanl

Saw 3 is one of them jeanl. Which reason I do not know. Somebody else can help you a bit more here.

Linx05 is correct, Saw3 R1 is definitely one of the titles that are having this issue. What we tried was straight ripping it to the hard drive with AnyDVD, and then running FixVTS on that. DVD Shrink was not able to open it. I forget the exact error, but, it wasn't able to process it at all. That's why we were bummed cause it would have solved everyone's problems all in one shot if it had worked. I think Open Season R1 is another title that had this problem, as well. And Grudge 2 R1. If you have any of those, try dragging the VIDEO_TS directory to your hard drive and then running your FixVTS program on it. You should be able to easily repro the problem. If you can fix it, my script will work and/or James can call the exe from AnyDVD after straight ripping it to the hard drive. That would be EXCELLENT for our Shrink users. Thanks, Jeanl!!

Hi Jeanl,

I don't think it is FixVTS which is to blame. I believe the problem is, that FixVTS sees .ifo files which are already "stripped" by AnyDVD, not the original files from the disc.

Another problem might be, that FixVTS can't see the "error sectors" patched by AnyDVD anymore, because AnyDVD no longer replaces them with padding bytes, but with video material.

I am already looking into this...

Thank you for your great work!

@SlySoft,

First, thank you for clarifying AnyDVD's underlying functionality again. It sure clears things up a bit.

I guess this would mean that dragging DVD files to HD via Windows Explorer would not be ideal for new protection-type DVDs as the navpacks are not fixed.

In the beginning, when the message "Found & removed ......" is found in the AnyDVD log, one would think that the structural protections are removed from both IFO and VOB files. Thus the misconception that AnyDVD is a ripper. Perhaps, for clarification purposes, it would be nice that you put a statement in the log that only IFO files are fixed when such structural protections are found.

I agree. Creating an independent AnyDVD ripper module, which is callable from the AnyDVD tray icon, would makes things easier for anyone who wants to rip to HD by selecting the AnyDVD ripper option.

Purely a guess here - It doesn't work probably due to the fact that AnyDVD fixes the IFO structures on-the-fly, and FixVTS fixes the unused cells and corrupted navpacks from the copied VOB files and in updating the IFOs, there's a conflict of information in the IFOs. However regarding the unreferenced cells, FixVTS does look into the IFOs for reference.

If that's the case, James, couldn't the AnyDVD Ripper be "updated" to "fix" some of those issues so that FixVTS could be used at the end of the ripping process? That way you wouldn't inhibit AnyDVD's normal functionality for people using CloneDVD2 and other "modern" programs(no offense to Shrink meant by that comment) that can handle screwed up DVD structures, but, you would give Shrink users a path to success by using an updated AnyDVD Ripper that's tied to the FixVTS.exe. Doing this would save you some headaches in the future, as well, because users could update the FixVTS.exe whenever a new version is released.

You would appear to be correct based upon what James has just told us. That being the case, I think the AnyDVD Ripper functionality could be updated to not do some of the things that AnyDVD usually does to the IFOs so that FixVTS could "see" the protections and remove them correctly. If that's the case, the end of the AnyDVD Ripper process could call the FixVTS.exe directly and fix the DVD structure. This would be highly beneficial for everyone.

For "Everyone"???? Not for me....:-)

And why not?! You try to please everyone and look what happens. LOL!

Most or some of us has moved on and just got clonedvd and the problem solved.

It is nice though for you to take out some of your time to help though.

I use CloneDVD, as well, but, it's apparent that there are MANY people who are COMPLETELY unsatisfied with that answer. Hence, if we can help find a way to make AnyDVD work for those people, it's better for everyone involved. Slysoft will get rid of the headache, Shrink users will be able to use AnyDVD again for full disc backups, etc. So, IMO, it's worth the effort to try to get it all to work together. Hopefully James will get it working soon and a new version can come out that interfaces with FixVTS.exe...if that happens, users can then update the FixVTS.exe themselves whenever a new version comes out and remove the burdon from Slysoft completely. Is CloneDVD a better solution? Yes, if you own it, without a doubt it is. But for those that don't or refuse to buy it, the FixVTS.exe solution would be nice.

I admit again that I am a layman, but this is the part that worries me ... I don't want to loose AnyDVD's ability to fix the IFO's fast and "on the fly".

I don't use Shrink. I don't compress ... ever, I never have. So I don't use Shrink or CloneDVD's DVD9 to DVD5 mode. I split new additions to my original collection (that have the new & difficult nav protection) onto two disks with CloneDVD. For my DL originals that don't have those newer protections, I split using another, older program (James hates if I mention it's name) soley because gives me a neat little "insert disk2" message at the end of playing disk1. Or I burn to double layer verbs using CloneCD or once in a while ImageBurn.

So I don't want to encounter support problems using my "modern" backup programs by changing AnyDVD's present functionality to "fast-fix" the IFO's so as to be able to also include a rip feature that is a slow, fixed, static repair procedure. ... for the sake of keeping legacy or slowly updated programs alive. Please forgive my self-interest on this subject.

So please tell me I am missing something in your discussions and I will not be dissapointed. Please tell me that AnyDVD would function exactly as it does now unless one engages a separate link to a rip feature. But if AnyDVD is always running (as it should be) when a disk is inserted, and if it has already done it's present function, how could that be "undone" (relating to your statement: "not do some of the things that AnyDVD usually does to the IFOs") so that the link to FixVTS would/may work?? I also don't want AnyDVD to turn into a large program rather than a "driver".

Best regards,
Whisperer

Edit: Also how would all this affect people who use the AnyDVD driver simply to watch their movies on their computer based media entertainment system. Me(?) I want a hard backup for my player/changer based entertainment system. But many members (Tru for one) play their orignals off their system.

Good point Whisperer now I definatly have to agree with you as this spells troubles for the users that own clonedvd or clonecd.

maybe, maybe not. I'm just looking for some assurance here from those experienced in SW development. And I would like to see everybody on this thread happy with whatever comes of this discussion.

@Whisperer1,

What I was suggesting was modifying *ONLY* the AnyDVD ripper functionality. I thought I was very careful to spell that out to avoid panic. I guess not. And it was only a suggestion for James...not that he needs it...the guy's more brilliant than I'll ever be! Anyway, no, I was suggesting that the existing AnyDVD functionality be left alone, but, that the AnyDVD Ripper functionality be rewritten to allow the DVD to be ripped to the hard drive in such a way that FixVTS.exe would then be able to work. Your point about AnyDVD automagically modifying the IFOs on the fly is exactly why I'm suggesting that the AnyDVD Ripper functionality be rewritten to compensate...it can work with the AnyDVD driver to temporarily disable some of the automagic functionality during the rip if James does it right(and of course he would). Then when the rip is done the driver would work as normal. IOW, CloneDVD and CloneCD users would never see a difference in functionality...it'd ONLY happen when the ripper is active and ripping. At least, that's *MY* theory on this situation. Slysoft has to actually DO the work...it's much easier for a mere user like myself to come up with ideas as I'm not the one who has to implement them. LOL!