Just a note to some people. If you are using the new DVD Decrypter 3.5.2.0, and AnyDVD, movies with the new type protections (Sony ARccOS), such as on Forgotten, a conflict happens.

I don't know the cure, other than I disabled AnyDVD and DVD Decrypter worked fine.

Could you please be more specific? What conflict "happens"? Error messages? Blue screens? Diabolical laughter coming out of your speakers?

Sure I'd be happy to. First off, AnyDVD doesn't get out of hand, it doesn't do anything wrong.

The error messages popping up are within DVD Decrypter? Shall I post them?

Do you and them collaberate together?

Also I posted the same message in the DVD Decrypter bugs forum. So perhaps I should wait to see what they say too?

Why would you want to run two applications that's suppose to do the same thing at the SAME TIME?

Because in the past, AnyDVD always worked in conjunction with DVD Decrypter 3.5.1.0. AnyDVD probably isn't even at fault, but I am sure others use the two programs together. It's more of a NOTICE to those who do this, as I am not worried about the problem, as I can over come it. I thought MAYBE that the 2 programs could collaborate a little, and know when to NOT be active, or NOT do a particular protection based on the others abilities.

Again, it's just a notice, heck maybe I am way out of bounds, if so, stomp my toes.....lol

All in good fun and knowledge....

I'm running DVD Decrypter 3.5.2.0 and AnyDVD 4.5.3.1 at the same time. Don't see any problem yet. But I don't think it's a good idea to do this.

You wouldn't want to run Norton and McAfee antivirus at the same time, right?

In case of DVDDecrypter/AnyDVD it shouldn't hurt. DVDDecrypter will see a non-encrypted disc, if AnyDVD is enabled. I've done it myself a long time ago. I just used DVDDecrypter to create splitted iso Images, and I didn't have another tool at hand.
In case of Arccos protected discs, AnyDVD will change the DVD structure, to undo the damage the copy protection has done, and it will replace the unreadable sectors with dummy data, in case you do a file copy. It does this before the drive even tries to read the unreadable data, because AnyDVD knows from its analysis which sector ranges are not needed and should be avoided.
Because the protection is now "gone", DVDDecrypter will probably not "see" the Arccos range and complain about missing pack headers. This is ok, you can ignore it. You could disable the "option to remove protections based on unreadable sectors" in AnyDVD, and DVDDecrypter should recognise Arccos again.
But you are right, using DVD Decrypter with AnyDVD enabled is normally very useless.
BTW, DVDDecrypter does not really repair the damage done by these new protections. CloneDVD will probably still complain about invalid structures, if you rip an ALPHA-DVD, Arccos or Puppetlock protected disc with DVD Decrypter and try to use CloneDVD to remaster, transcode and write it.

Olli telling it like it is....as usual

What I dont understand is if they're so invalid, why do players support them?

Surely it's all about dealing with them properly?

When I eventually get my hands on a copy of one of these protected discs, maybe I'll find out what's stopping CloneDVD from working. I know you'd prefer it if people bought AnyDVD but that's not really for the good of the public.

As a side note, were pack header 'warnings' really the only problem here? I figured it was more serious than that. Most people that rip the new discs would have seen them by now and know not to worry about them.

We already had this discussion, hadn't we? These are "copy protections", and not "play protections". It is the whole point, that they can be played, but not copied, isn't it?
From a technical point of view, a copier works differently than a player. At least CloneDVD does. These copy protections actually rely on this fact.
And it isn't only CloneDVD that fails, I believe other programs have problems as well.
AFAIK Shrink fails with DVD-ALPHA files from DVD Decrypter, DVD2One with Arccos rips. But they work without problems with AnyDVD.
You can take a very old version of CloneDVD1, from a time, where these protections didn't exist, and you can copy the newest protections using AnyDVD. You can't using DVDDecrypter.

Who do you think is at fault here?

I already told you, that CloneDVD will never get any code, which can bypass these protections for legal/political reasons. You could argue, "they are CSS protected anyway". Well, and if they aren't? CSS costs money per disc and is useless anyway. The "Puppetlock" discs I have seen were all not CSS protected. I don't remember, if Oldboy (ALPHA-DVD) was CSS protected, I don't think it is. No need for DVD Decrypter, but if CloneDVD copies them right away, it would be illegal in Germany. (They sell CloneDVD in big stores there, you can buy it from amazon.de, I hope you get the point).

If *you* claim to support these new protections, *you* should start to deal with them properly first.
What you currently do is misleading. Putting "files on the harddisk" is probably good enough from your point of view, "but that's not really for the good of the public". They want to use the tool of their choice to post process them.

Olli,

So any 1.x version of CloneDVD would be okay as far as bypassing these latest encryption protocols? Do I still need to run the latest version of AnyDVD?

Would CloneDVD 2.0.8.4 (I think) qualify as the old CloneDVD. I may have this backed up somewhere.

TIA,
CP

ummmm...

Yeah we had it, but that doesn't mean I'm buying it (It's nothing personal!)

If the IFO files you need to work with are readable, and the content they address on a PGC level within the VOBs is readable, what's the problem?

Maybe I've just built too much 'sanity' checking into my program and now I don't see the bit thats would make programs crash. But nothing I 'have' done is particularly geared towards not crashing on protected discs, the changes are totally universal. The only bit that's for the protection is the bad sector stuff - but again, it's all unreferenced data anyway and maybe a transcoding program should be removing it as the first job it does?!

There is no doubt in my mind that DVD Shrink would handle these discs if it were still being developed and I know that very soon DVD2One WILL handle them. Shrinks major flaw currently is that it doesnt support / deal with 'cell' commands. If it would just do that, loads of people wouldn't get the nice 5 mins of 'nothing' they're currently getting in their new copy! Of course not everyone has noticed they can crop it out!

btw, I've not in a position to check the protection on DVD-ALPHA discs, nor am I on ARccOS protected ones, but from what I've seen, even R.E. 2 doesn't appear to be protected by CSS.

One example: ALPHA-DVD has CellIDs that are not referenced in the PGC. Shrink assumes these Cells are unreferenced: You can't copy them in reauthor mode. Unfortunately these cell's are the main movie. Doh! Funny, but true. I wonder, why players do play this stuff, but they do.

Sure. DVDShrink is illegal in some European Countries, in the US and Japan anyway. So Shrink won't care much. Much more interesting - what will the "Shrink-Spinoff" Recode do? I doubt Nero will make any modifications to bypass such protections.

I heard that, too. They are modestly safe in the Netherlands, but they should be careful when selling to countries like Germany. They obviously don't sell it in retail stores in Germany. Just imagine how expensive it would be, if SONY files a primary injunction against a product like CloneDVD in Germany and all copies have to be withdrawn from the stores. Elaborate Bytes AG certainly won't take that risk. CloneDVD doesn't even copy Macrovision protected DVDs, because of the 321 Studios law struggle with Macrovision in the US.

I just checked: RE2 SE US is CSS protected. "Old Boy - Final Edition" is not CSS protected.

As CloneDVD doesn't bypass anything, I would assume so.

Is this some kind of trick question? Of course you do.

Yeah I noticed that from the IFO files I was sent. The main PGC shows itself to use (mainly) VOB ID 2 and CELL ID's working backwards (!) from 255. Werid stuff! lol

Check again

Using only 'brute force', there is no encrpytion in the files. Fair enough if you do the old I/O exchange sequence it comes up as CSS protected and finds a key, but the actual main movie content is not CSS protected. The little 'I'm an encrypted packet' in the vob files is never set.

You're right! I wonder, why they do this.... Maybe they don't have to pay CSS licenses, if they don't encrypt any blocks? But programs like CloneDVD check the "CSS Flag" with ReadDVDStructure and will refuse copying. Maybe it's only "yet another mastering error". Only SONY knows...

See

Maybe they use the money saved on CSS to fund their 'dvd copy protection' project?!

Thanks for the open discussion, @Olli & @LIGHTNING UK! Educational for those of us less knowledgeable with lower level DVD content issues.

how about a quick tutorial as to how thes enew protections work...for the benefit of all...make it as a sticky

keep it going Olli and LIGHTNING UK!...I'm finding this discussion very intriguing and would like to learn more about these copy protection schemes, their structures and how they're implemented.

I bought my first Clone CD online in January of 2000 and now have Clone DVD and AnyDVD also. I have kept up with all of the old forums and have been around this one for several years also. I do not post much, but I have gained much knowledge from reading post on these forums over the years. I just LOVE to see a good discussion, like the one above, between two very knowledgeable people. Thanks to all of you. This is one of the things I love the most about this "Internet" of ours.

Mike