In Sweden it is illegal to download and upload protected files. I asked a lawyer how the law worked on bottorrent networks where you share bits of a file. She said it makes no different, that it is lika sharing a page from a book. But is this really the same thing? The fragment that you share does not represent a few seconds of a song or a movie sequens, or does it? What does the fragments you share represent? Is it not just 1:s and 0:s that just in itself doesn't show anything? Like code that result in a home page. I dont think it is the same thing as sharing a page from a book.

Can anyone explain to me what the freagments represent and include and what the difference is by sharing a page from a book? if there are one?

illegal is illegal, i dont know if i understand you correct, do you mean your downloading only a peace of the program without some files it needs and later downloading the other peace so that it does work.

or just downloading part of a part of software that already works even without that missing peace?

becouse my teacher say's you may not download a movie, but if you download 2 programs and put them together and that makes 1 movie it is legal but if i were you just dont do it even i am not sure if it is legal or illegal

What I mean is that the bittorrent works that you download different fragments of a file from different sources and when you have all the fragment then your file is complete. And if those fragments doesn's represent anything how can it be illegal? I understnad that a page from a book is copyrighted but how can bits (1:s and 0:s) be copyrighted. I wanna know what those fragments include? Caus I dont think that it is the same thing as just a page from a book.

acording to my teacher it is legal but if your lawyer say's its illegal who would you believe?

Basically because it creates the whole. 1 and 0 are only a digital reresentation of the code of the programme, and it is the programme and its' code that is copyrighted. There basically is no difference under the law if you are sharing either with out permission.

the movie has a copyright and in the end you will have the movie by downloading, but thats how i see it

The thing is that that is had not been fully tried herer in Sweden so there has been no rulings regardning the law. This perdicable lawyer works at a organisation that works very hard to prosecute all people that share. So I cant trust hre word. Cause I have talk to other people that state that it is not illega to share bit of copyrighted files cause the fragments itself are not copyrighted. So i am a bit confused

i aint no cop or lawyer but i still think its illegal, what i went your home grabed your hardisk out of your computer and takes a processor out of someone elses computer, untill i have a complete cd, is that legal?

No it is not legal but the thing is that it is legal to take someone else code from a home page an form a home page as long as it does not look like the original, but I can still take code lines from the original. The thing that I am wondering about is that like downloading fragment of another file. The thing is that I dont know, that is why I want to know what the fragments of a file look like when you share them with bittorrent? If it is more lika a page from a book or if it is just 1:s and 0:s? Cause 0:s and 1:s cant be copyrighted, just like words that form a sentence cant be copyrighted.

There is something called "fair use" and most countries have a version of it, this sometimes muddys the waters in such discussions as some believe it can apply to such a situation, and it doesn't as it was designed for learning not for sharing in this sense.

uruhara's analogy is a good one. Though some will argue against it as they don't see filesharing as theft. A better one I think would be say there is a book I want so I go to different sources and photocopy the max allowed for fair use (10% of the whole here in the UK if my memory is correct) until I have a complete book, that would be illegal. That is pretty much similar to what you are saying and yes it is illegal in most countries.

Try going here: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=102866 and click on the link in the first post and read up on the EUCD which all EU member states have signed up to. Hopefully it will clarify the situation.

well everything on a computer is 1 and o but i dont think you get it per 1 and 0 cuz then you would have to meet allot of people online, and you also dont pay per word like a book but you are downloading files

alf who are you trying to convince? It reads to me that you are trying to convince yourself that the sharing of commercial things is okay. The sharing of such (games, software, music etc) has its' risks and if you wish to do it then you have to accept those risks, if you are unwilling to do so then don't do it. After all do you want to be the test case that makes the law?

There are things you con download and share quite legally, for example some software and OSs that are part of the Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) colective, these include OpenOffice, GIMP, OpenSuSE, Fedora, Scribus (generally found on sourceforge).

alf why dont you ask a lawyer that does not pick a side or ask a judge? couse a judge never can pick a side

The fragments represent pieces of the file(s) that are part of the torrent, plus some error-correcting bits to make sure the fragments arrive safely to their destination. The pages-from-a-book analogy is pretty good except that pages from a book are still readable -- fragments of a torrent aren't guaranteed to have any standalone use on their own.

I am not trying to convince anyone This is just something that I have thought about and are curious about. I konw a lot about the law and filesharing but I dont file share at the moment. Sure I can ask a lawyer but they dont have the technical skills and I just wanted to discuss the subject. That is just the thing, copyright and file sharing have a lot of different oppinions and it is not black and white

sorry but i am not sure, i am only giving my opinion to what i think and sounds logic.

(and before i forget welcome to the forum)

Alf take a look at the link in my post it takes you to another post in this section where there is alink to the copyright laws of various contries, including a link to the EUCD. These will answer your questions much better than we can. This is because the laws do vary, in general filesharing of commercial items is illegal in most countries but the degree depends on the country (whether it is a civil or criminal act) and the amount. For example where I could download something of a commercial nature quite legally, but if I upload just one chunk of it I am breaking the law.

To start with if you are curious what what the fragments are made of of any given torrent than make your own. Torrents come in all forms and sized depending on the file. In general most are in rar files and you can extract them to .iso or .bin files and several others. The two I listed are just for example. If you are truely wanting to know the stucture or what the fragments are, set up a network at your residence or where ever you like. You can start by a ftp program. Different programs but they work in the same manner. Ftp programs and bittorrent clients are good at transfering large files or any files for that reason. You can ftp what ever you want and then study or learn what the fragments are.

Now the next part for the 1's and 0's. Anything and everything on your pc comes back to this. Yes 1's and 0's can bve copyrighted if it is how a program is written as those 1's and 0's are what makes it what it is. Now for the 1 and 0 itself no it cant be copyrighted but what is done with those when it makes something can be.

Words from a sentence in general cant be copyrighted but however if that sentence is a company's slogan or similar it can be. But logically if i were talking to you in person and said something to due with someone sentance or slogan that may be copy righted is one thing, but if I were to run a buisness of some sort and use that saying to my advantage is another thing. The person with the sentance or slogan will not like it and more and likely pursue some kind of action.


The way laws are precieved is a real grey area as there are many nations, countries and bodies of government that make their own laws. Their are to many ways around things to even take a chance unless you have alot of money and are willing to fight for whatever reason or action you take.


Good luck with what ever you are doing and welcome to the forums. Just my thoughts.