It amazes me how some people use this word "illegal" without knowing what it even means. It means something that violates a CRIMINAL law. And believe it or not, using a crack on a game you own does not break any criminal laws at all.

Modifying the code of the game without the permission of the authors is merely a violation of the license agreement which is NOT A CRIMINAL ACT, it may render you liable for private prosecution, but any action like that from the authors increases the danger of the matter of copy protection itself violating statutory consumer rights coming to light in open court, something they are not prepared to risk.

Don't post on this board btw, cos it's illegal.

Stevie Woop - YOU ARE VERY CONFUSED!!!


Any modification of the original game code is ILLEGAL - when you purchase a game, all you purchase is the right to play that INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY (IP) - therefore any modification you make to that IP breaks the laws governing IP protection and licensing - You are breaking the copyright law for the game and infringing upon the Trademark Act - The Trademark offences are DEEMED a CRIMINAL MATTER - accepted Copyright infringements are more of a business/civil issue...

So any modification of a game can result in 'Criminal Proceedings' being taken against you - granted the chances of any game company personally pursuing these people through the courts is limited - but technically it is still an offence..

I would also like to add - one that will get much worse, what with proposed legislation being talked about in the 'Entertainment' industry (www.elspa.com) - A radical global reform is shaping up!

If you feel my answer is more confused than yours! - I would be happy to discuss further!

MC

Looks like you "WOOPed" him.....(I make myself laugh so hard sometimes).

Yeah, it's amazing that in 5 years at university getting an honours degree in law plus 24 years plus in practice as a lawyer, I haven't managed to figure out what the word "illegal" means.

[Well, maybe I'm just a little slow. ]

Sorry m8, you are completely wrong.

Why not quote the actual law that is being violated? The laws you are referring to are in regard to re-distribution of modified code not personal use. There is and always will be a big difference. At least in our country, the laws governing this are the same as the personal use duplication laws.

A crack that modifies the code intended for personal use is completly legal, if a file (such as the main exe) is modified and re-distributed, then that becomes a criminal matter. Seems you may be a little confused.

Would you mind letting me know the name of the company you work for btw. SO I can avoid it.

StevieWoop.

LOL - you do make my days shorter !

Ok, very valid points we are entering here - you are right - dependent upon the local host countries laws - deems whether the 'reverse-engineering (and it is that!)' is legal or illegal.

You cannot possibly contest that applying a 'no-cd' patch to a game is not considered IP malformation or reverse engineering? You are deliberatly modifying the original licenced game that you paid for - contained within that licence would be a paragraph that states that you must not modify the game files !

Now, the reason why we are discussing it and saying it is illegal, because in the UK it is... The age old argument of owning a copy entitles you to back-it up are simply not true - and are completely misfounded - many steps have been taken by game designers and publishers in the statute of this law - and they are pushing for a zero-tolerance policy.

Now personally, I believe you should be legally allowed to make a backup for the reasons discussed - but one that only works on your machine - i'm sure this can be easily implemented by the publishers - but probably never thought of, or tried.

The endorsement of applying 'no-cd' patches and modified .exe's in a multi-national forum such as this is pure madness. This forum transcends so many host countries and laws that people could make ill-informed decisions and wind up breaking laws - just because they thought it was ok to do so - and as you well know - Ignorance is no defence in a court of law.

Therefore - I suggest we wrap this up by stating that in most cases and countries it IS illegal to modify the original game by applying a 'no-cd' patch or crack.

I seriously do not want to argue with you - and would be interested in seeing the articles that you refer to.

As for avoiding my company - now come on, why put forward an adult argument, then act like a stroppy kid?

Look forward to conversing with you again, as I said - I enjoy these debates and would be extremely interested in seeing the materials you are referencing for your arguments sake.

Cheers

MC

cool... www.google.com ... search for "what is legal" and then it is big and fat on the screen:
creating / using a crack is surely legal


man, this is great what you know... why do we all not know such things???
just read you manual, on the last 3 pages there it will be: any modification, dis-assembling, or modification of the software is against the rules...

woah, man, gettin so angry about a "clever and smart guy like you - ppl like u r the only ppl i REALLY don't need...

nothing against you, personally, but believe it or not, in this case, your oppinion is just WRONG!!!

Raz

(100st post... )

(don't want to attack anyone personally, but i had a bad day and this here makes it not better... )

please dont critisize me, for what i am about to post!

I dont think no-cd cracks/patches are illegal, because they are on websites round the web!

Thread split to here.

Cracks, no-CD patches, whatever, are not discussed on this site. Some of us remember Clone Clinic, among other sites, that was closed down for discussing illegal activity.

Please respect our rules, try to understand what is discussed here and what is not.

CD Freaks and a - to disclose later - company will be launching a project later this year that will deal with all these issues. Together with experts on European copyright laws we will post information regarding legal information on a - URL to be disclosed later - website.

This because the legal issues are for many unclear and depend much on the country you're living in.

Not going to add to previous points made, my opinion on this is very clear and stated in may older threads.

This, however, is something I would like to comment on. So because I can find on the web in many places how to build an atomic bomb, it would make it legal? Or because so many people kill other people, it is legal?

Have you not noticed that the web is full of illegal content? Have you not noticed that a lot of these sites are closed down...just to be popping up at a different address?

If your definition of legal is "because so many people do it, it must be legal", I think your are a bit naive...

Ok sorry guys for discussing this on the forum...

I was just trying to make the point that 'host' country laws differ - and that people should never encourage the use of certain downloads to play games as they will be contravening some form of law somewhere...

I fully understand and support your ideals in this forum and agree that the methods discussed here do not constitute piracy in the known sense - as for profit.

I look forward to seeing a clear resolution and definition of the laws on this 'soon to be announced' website! :-)

Cheers

MC

Does this mean Cheat systems, ie trainers and action replay aswell as other cheat cds for console are illegal too ?

they modify code in memory

But it's got no illegal intent...

Can I add a little something?

I think the theory of Cracks, cracking, reverse engineering is not illegal (US). Patches are not illegal by themselves. Like bomb making, the info is not illegal. It's how you use it.

When you distribute Cracks (already cracked exe's), this is where I would see the grey area. Because you are distributing copyrighted material.

Whether this is law or not- I believe that anything paid for (license or actual property) is yours to do with whatever you want, as long as you are not sharing it with others. I read an analogy... If you think of Software as a car, do you want the dealer saying that you cannot replace the tires/radio/wheels? You have to purchase a whole new car when they wear out...

Cant really be bothered to get into it, but thered be a lot of people locked up if intent was a criminal offence.

ok, sorry for replying to a old thread, it was linked to in a new thred, but i would like to comment on this, i dont think that cheats/trainers are illegal, as they dont alter the copy protection. if they had to alter/remove the copy protection to work then they would be illegal.

ben

It is not just the copy protection you are not allowed to modify/change/remove, you are not allowed to modify/change/remove any part of the software/program.

"2. You may not decompile, modify, reverse engineer, disassemble or otherwise reproduce the Software."

Trainers / game cheats aren't illegal. The cheats themselves can be accessed if you know the right console commands, and were put there by the programmers of the game. A trainer is just a convenient way to access these codes without having to use tedious console commands.

I've used a trainer on the odd occasion....i doubt i'll be prosecuted for it.

do all trainers reverse engeneer the software?

LOL. I live in Bulgaria. Frankly I do not care if it is legal/illegal.

Even my ISP has films and stuff available for download on it's own servers.

Imagine your ISP doing that