As we all know, BWA-Builder can load mds-Files and convert them into bwa-Format. Is there any way to implement bwa-info into an existing mds (with or without DPM information in it) ? I'm doing some 'tests' with DTM Racedriver2 (DVD), but the splitted images prevent me from carrying on (or is there any way of making images>4GB in Blindwrite without splitting ?) And by the way: Which of the bwa's in my attached image looks like it 'should', green or red ?

it looks like you don't need a bwa file at all...

Though it looks like i don't need one (concerning my image, or Starforce (DVD) at all ?), is it possible ?

No you do need one, and red looks good, green screwed up. To see starforce 3 peaks you need to zoom in a lot, they're very small. I think blindwrite will also think you don't need one, though you really _do_ need one. A way to back up Toca Race Driver 2 would be to get blindwrite 5.2.3 image with topology, burn it to dvd with autoplay on, then insert the copy into dvd-device on a separate(not onboard) controller. I.e. ide dvd device on separate pci ide/raid controller, dvd in external enclosure connected through usb/firewire, an internal dvd-device on raid or sata bus.
But blindwrite thinks only peaks as big as securom must be emulated, so with starforce it'll probably just say media topology will be ignored no matter what you do. Alcohol is smarter with this, emulating peaks of any size, but completely doesn't support dvd with rmps info or mounting dvds with topology info onto virtual drive.

So i was thinking of a way with Toca Race Driver 2... Like dump topology info only for as much sectors as there're on cd(i.e. only about 10-15% and then _stop_). Save it. Then take a cd-rw and burn to it 1 only empty txt file with random name, the main concern to do would be give that cd-rw the same label as on original toca dvd (RACEDRIVER2). Now make an image of that cd-rw with blindwrite 5.2.3. Combine incomplete topology info with _almost_ empty imagefile(since i don't know how to get a completely empty b5i file with only volume label). Give them the same name.
Now try to mount the concoction with daemon tools. If it doesn't cry "invalid image file" in first place, that'll be a big progress. Then try to pass starforce check with that.
If you think "this is comlete nonsense, starforce can't be that easily cheated" read this thread here http://forum.alcohol-soft.com/index.php?showtopic=13836 which explains how an empty bin file with only label of the original cd + dumped dpm info pass starforce checks better than original. But TRD2 being on dvd is a _really_ big problem actually.

Btw it's unclear whether latest starforce 3 versions use peaks at all... Cause it's doubtfull it can accurately work with _such_small peaks... And form and position of topology curve generally differs from normal cd-r/w. So maybe it uses just that and doesn't care about peaks... Like Beyond Divinity topology is unnaturally straight, contains no smallest notch of a peak...

Seems like with blindwrite orientation to securom it became completly non-ready for starforce 3...

@Destruct

"red looks good, green screwed up"

To be honest, i really thought, that screwed up has to do with Starforce


"But blindwrite thinks only peaks as big as securom must be emulated, so with starforce it'll probably just say media topology will be ignored no matter what you do. Alcohol is smarter with this,..."

Yes, topology was ignored, so i wanted to create an Alcohol image without File-splitting, then make an bwa with BWA-Builder (or a b5t), then (my thread question) 'transform' it to an mds (yes i know, as you said, Alc doesn't support DVD rmps), and finally try the 'delete all files' bin->mds method WITH unplugging (which i am sure you've heard about). Probably complete nonsense.

Sorry, too late to edit. I forgot to mention: I first made an (splitted)image +topology with Blindwrite and worked on it with UltraISO (deleting, renaming,unplugging, mounting)->valid image, but disc not found
..concerning DVD's

Sure i've heard about that method cause it was me who described it on alcohol soft forums. Actually first i though it was chinese who first found it, but then it came out the concept was first described on one russian forum on 19th june 2004(though it was described in a bit different way). Splitting images doesn't help here in any way cause you'll end up using empty imagefile. And i've already tried "bwa converted to mds + empty bin". Well, as far as my abilities allowed, i used hexedit to compare mds to that same mds converted to bwa and seeing the difference converted DTM2 bwa to mds. Atleast bwa builder 5 accepted the resulting file ok... But daemon tools or alcohol virtual drives = invalid image. SO i think FULL topology will result in invalid image for now no matter what you try BECAUSE virtual drives don't support dvd topology also.

We need to cut down topology to only as much sectors as there're on cd to atleast try to get the image to mount... That can be done by hand - by editing mds file, cause we have bwaedit sources and that must describe mds format... OR stop topology creation process at appropriate %...
To sum it up, we need not only to cut down data image but also topology information so it looks like it's a cd topology image and doesn't refuse to mount... And if we're lucky, starforce will only check topology in normal cd sectors and not go to higher dvd sectors.

It wasn't my intention to split the image, tweaker didn't help, that is why i'd like to try Alc, but thats not important anymore after
your (...and Lapinou's ) information. Thanx

Forget BlindWrite in relationship with StarForce. With this new version(=<5.0) of BwaBuilder and BlindWrite self, i can't even create working topology for CD's with StarForce. And that, because the software don't let me to change read speed for topology creating, not even with BWTweaker, "cdbremse" doesn't help too. The absolute density of such one bwa doesn't match with real absolute density. The same happens with older version of BwaBuilder(from bwsuite 4.5.7), if i am setting the speed to "maximal", but i have there at least a possibility to change the speed to lower level and can create a working topology.
Ok, that is not the big problem actually.
Except the fact, Alcohol can't emulate physical structure of DVD topology, BlindWrite doesn't create full topology of whole DVD, as i can see it. Else i can't explain it, why bwabuilder shows just 1.000.000 sectors and no more. Is that just of cosmetic nature?
For example here is the log of DTM2, all sectors are in hex format.

1. (time measurment for sectors per coil jumps)
0c 5a c0
0c 5a 90
0c 5a 60
0c 5a 30
0c 5a 00
0c 59 d0
0c 59 a0
0c 59 70
0c 59 40
0c 59 10
0c 58 e0
0c 58 b0
0c 58 80
0c 58 50
0c 58 20
0c 57 f0
0c 57 c0
0c 57 90
0c 57 60
0c 57 30
0c 57 00
0c 56 d0
0c 56 a0
0c 56 70
0c 56 40
0c 56 10
0c 55 e0
0c 55 b0
0c 55 80
0c 55 50
0c 55 20
0c 54 f0
0c 54 c0
0c 54 90
0c 54 60
0c 54 30
0c 54 00
0c 53 d0
0c 53 a0
0c 53 70
0c 53 40
0c 53 10
0c 52 e0
0c 52 b0
0c 52 80
0c 52 50
0c 52 20
0c 51 f0
0c 51 c0
0c 51 90
0c 51 60
0c 51 30
0c 51 00
0c 50 d0
0c 50 a0
0c 50 70
0c 50 40
0c 50 10
0c 4f e0
0c 4f b0
0c 4f 80
0c 4f 50
0c 4f 20
0c 4e f0
0c 4e c0
0c 4e 90
0c 4e 60
0c 4e 30
0c 4e 00
0c 4d d0
0c 4d a0
0c 4d 70
0c 4d 40
0c 4d 10
0c 4c e0
0c 4c b0
0c 4c 80
0c 4c 50
0c 4c 20
0c 4b f0
0c 4b c0
0c 4b 90
0c 4b 60
0c 4b 30
0c 4b 00
0c 4a d0
0c 4a a0
0c 4a 70
0c 4a 40
0c 4a 10
0c 49 e0
0c 49 b0
0c 49 80
0c 49 50
0c 49 20
0c 48 f0
0c 48 c0
0c 48 90
0c 48 60
0c 48 30
0c 48 00


2. (first check point)
0c 47 f0
0c 47 e0
0c 47 d0
0c 47 c0
0c 47 b0
0c 47 90
0c 47 70
0c 47 50
0c 47 30
0c 47 10
0c 46 e0
0c 46 b0
0c 46 80
0c 46 50
0c 46 20
0c 45 e0 (804.320)


3.
0c 48 00
0e d1 60
11 5a b0
13 e4 10
16 6d 60
18 f6 b0
1b 80 00 (1.802.240)


4. (second check point)
1b 7f f0
1b 7f e0
1b 7f d0
1b 7f b0
1b 7f 90
1b 7f 70
1b 7f 50
1b 7f 20
1b 7e f0
1b 7e c0
1b 7e 90
1b 7e 50
1b 7e 10
1b 7d d0
1b 7d 90
1b 7d 40

You see, the last sector in this check is 1b 80 00 = 1.802.240(3.43gb)
This DVD game has althogether 2.252.464(4.30gb)
If there will be a topology with less, as 1.000.000 sectors, we will not have a chance to get a working topology

Heh, probably one more point that proves blindwrite complete orientation towards securom, probably 1000000 sectors are enough to get securom-protected dvds authenticated.
Then our only choice is to wait until alcohol/daemon tools support getting dpm info from dvds properly, mounting dvd images with topology and burning dvds with rmps info. I guess that should happen next version or more likely the version after next version = not soon probably.

Not for Starforce DVD's, but maybe someone will need this tool sometimes; no conversion, but injection to an existing mds-file http://copybase.ch/Cb/PHPV2/Download...roup.php?Id=16 -> QuickMount 1.0

Customize -> Tools/'Inject DPM into mds'