Normally I wouldn't be upset over an application that exists to either make successful backups of games I purchased, or make successful images of games I purchased. However, because I paid to register Alcohol 120%, I would at least expect it to make a working copy of a copy-protected DVD, or at least a working image of one to use on the virtual drive. After paying for the program because I was under the impression that it would have support for copy-protected DVDs, it still does not. Therefore, I'm left very few options. I'm not about to come up with $50 just to get a 5 CD version of a SecuROM 7.x protected game that I already own on DVD, just so Alcohol can actually make a working copy or image of it. I'm also not about to download Daemon Tools 4 and have to disable my IDE drives, that's a big fat joke. My point is, I paid a decent amount of scratch for a program that I can't use.

When are we going to get a version of Alcohol that actually emulates the latest copy protections from a DVD, without the need of some 3rd party modifications? (SR7 Stop, Anti-blaxx, etc.) When are we going to get a version of Alcohol that has a SecuROM 7.x or SafeDisc 3.x data-type setting which works on DVDs and not just CDs?

Get AnyDVD

I'm sure you'll have 20 people tell you to get AnyDVD for copying video DVDs. I have to agree, after I finally went ahead and got it the other day.

AnyDVD doesn't really address playing DVD based games using an image does it?

As far as the game issues you mention, I had been thinking I'd buy Alcohol too - but your post gives me pause on spending that money. I try to get my games on DVD when available. Sounds like you're saying Alcohol isn't as good at doing images of DVD based games as it is at CD based? What games specifically?

I have been playing BF2 that came bundled (DVD in sleeve w/key on back) with my 7800gtx using an Alcohol image but I'm not sure if there is much copy protection on the disc. When Alcohol made the image, it didn't report any read errors or anything and I am not using Antiblaxx - just the image, a mini-image actually, to play the game.

If Alcohol is going to have some updates to look at doing more emulations of DVD based games, that WOULD be nice to know.

I didn't have much of an issue making an image of my Battlefield 2 DVD either, but Safedisc seems to be much different than SecuROM, especially when it's used on a DVD. What I found out is a big reason why it's so difficult to make images of DVD games with SecuROM is because of the difference between CDs and DVDs. I guess the wavelength or the laser accuracy differ between CDs and DVDs. This makes it more difficult to successfully read and write physical errors on the DVD medium. Basically, if I want to make a 100% successful image or copy of a SecuROM v7 protected game, I have to buy it on CD rather than DVD. However, this made me question a few things.

Why not find a way to intensify the physical errors found on a DVD so that there is a better chance an image will work in a virtual drive or as another copy? That might not work though if a DVD writer can't write those physical errors to begin with.

Alcohol currently only works for old games. It can no longer make working backups of any of the current popular copy protections (Safedisc, SecuROM, Starforce) without messing in the registry or using all kinds of tools that do the registry stuff for you.

People at Alcohol Soft just don't understand that 1 update every year is not enough. Copy protections get updated every few weeks, so it should be the same with Alcohol.
But it's like they couldn't care less They could sell a lot more if they could actually beat protections.
Now people download the trial, notice that it doesn't work and just move on.

I see our Anti Alcohol preacher is on his high horse yet again, shame on you.

1. Fact. Alcohol has been updated 3 times this year.

2. Fact. There is no software that updates every few weeks. software companys spend billions on protection development if it were that simple to produce a solution dont you think we would do it.

3. Fact. Of course we care, but not everything revolves around sales other projects are also important to us.

4. Fact. you can count on one hand the number of protections Alcohol can not presently resolve.

5. Fact. A person does not purchase a software if that person feels the software does not meet their requierments at time of purchase.

6. Fact. Many forms of protection are hardware dependent, you can not blame a software if you dont have the correct hardware.

7. Fact. Reefke on one hand advocates the use of Alcohol such as in his post here http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread....96#post1179296 And here http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread....48#post1149448 The list could go on. Then jumps in with So to summarise,

If a software meets´your requierments then buy it, if it does not then look for a software that does.

Rome was not built in a day, development is an ongoing project when the project is compleated then it will be released.

Dont post topics if you dont know the Facts.

Did it fix any blacklisting issues in those updates? Don't think so.

Does the names SecuROM, Starforce and Safedisc ring a bell? They do update every few weeks.

Are you saying you spend more time in other projects than Alcohol?

Yep, including the 3 most used protections these days. That's why I said Alcohol can only backup old games.

It did meet my requirements when I purchased it. But not anymore.

Blame it on the hardware when your software fails. Then how come other tools can run images and Alcohol can't? Blacklisting is NOT a hardware issue.

Nice selective quoting. Didn't I mention in those post that I used DT4 to mount the images? Because Alcohol can't without third party tools.
And once DT Pro is released, I will remove Alcohol from my system, because it will be of no use any longer.

I just stated the facts

YES.

My error it should have read :- 2. Fact. There is no back up software that updates every few weeks. software companys spend billions on protection development if it were that simple to produce a solution dont you think we would do it.

No i am saying we are developing projects for incorperation into Alcohol.

I never said that.... i said there were protections that were hardware dependent.. we cant change the hardware.

But your still using it to create your images ???

No i dont believe that you did, but as you well know Daemon Drivers and Alcohols drivers are of the same development, so when we are ready to update that problem is resolved.

Realy... do you know something i dont.... i doubt it


Shame you never got them right then

Hmm... Since DT Pro will be able to create images and run them, what would I need Alcohol for?
Burning copy protected games is like you say very hardware dependent, and I prefer to work with images.
And for other burning stuff I use either Nero (which I also have bought, and NEVER complained about) or DVD Decrypter.
If you can give me one good reason why I should keep using Alcohol, I can't wait to hear it

I'd like to play my games NOW, not when you people decide to update, which could take a year or more. That's why I put my money in DT now, because it does what I expect it to do.

You can defend your software all you want, but the biggest fact is that I'm not the only one who's not happy. The title of this topic says it all

Reading their forum you know that it'll be able dumping images from your protected software/games on CD/DVD and according to DTools all current protections will be supported. So if you don't mind burning your images as data files using Nero/DJ/... I see no advantage of Alcohol except the burning process. Don't get me wrong Alcohol served me well but with DTools Pro for 16$ and Alcohol for 50$ I would think twice before spending 34$ more on your product, so how will you react on this? New features, price drop,...?

Exactly my point, Kalas.
Burning protected CD's/DVD's is nearly impossible due to hardware restrictions, and unprotected images can be burned with DVD Decrypter or Imgburn, which are both freeware.

Because you paid for it, Because your entitled to free updates, Because it uses the same virtual drive technology as Daemon Tools, Because your purchase of one or the other software goes towards the development of both. There's 4 for you.

Alcohol and Daemon Tools development teams have been working hand in hand for years the two software's do not compete with each other they complement each other.

Rather a bold statement, does this mean in 6 months you will be saying " People at Alcohol Soft\ Daemon tools just don't understand that 1 update every year is not enough." hummm don't want to burst your bubble but its taken the joint development team a year to get to this stage. But please do purchase Dtools Pro when it is released your payment will as I said before go towards the development of both software's and every little helps

If I were reading this I might jump to the conclusion that you are insinuating that you use Alcohol although you may not have purchased it has it has served you well but you would think twice about spending 34$ more to purchase it... I will assume that what you mean is that you have run the free 30 day trial version to evaluate the software. or that as a purchased user you would not recommend a new purchaser spending an extra 34$

How would you like us to react, New features, Yes we are already at pre-beta stage with an additional function to the software. Price Drop, unlikely as payment goes towards development, this in turn goes towards new features which in conjunction with free updates and support benefits the user.

I think that "LocutusofBorg my opposite number over at Daemon Tools, sums up very nicely in his post here http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread....94#post1187594

As long as DTools Pro isn't released yet Alcohol is a good product for your backups. When it's released I would recommend thinking twice about purchsing Alcohol or DTools Pro for the reason I mentioned above and 34$ difference is an argument... I'm not attacking Alcohol here I'm just interrested in the fact that you'll get real competition in the near future, how you will react or not and you answered my question so thanks.

p.s. I read LocutusofBorg's post but I don't get the relationship between his post and this thread here?

I was just referring to my posts according your LocutusofBorg statement. I reread the thread from the beginning I think I got what you're talking about to be sure you may clarify things.

Do people still buy this software? You would have to have a lot of OLD games to actually make any use of this software.

CDFreaks should not be advertising this. 3 updates in a year (all within 6 weeks, were'nt they!!! And the only *cough* major *cough* feature was activation), with NO changes to the protection that is defeated.

Is there a list of games released within the last 9 months that have protection, AND are copyable/mountable with Alcohol?

If I've got it all wrong, then please feel free to tell us all when the next NEW version will be coming out?

From my knowledge DVD support was also introduced in these updates.

I forgot that one. But can you copy a protected DVD with it?

Yes, SecuROM & StarForce DVD's are supported in these updates. (At least the image creation), playing them is a little trickier due to current blacklists.

Hmmm.

I'm not coming down on one side or the other right now, but I have a few questions:

1. I know that Alcohol Soft does not have datatypes for DVDs, though it claims to be able to backup PS2 DVDs (I haven't modded my PS2 yet so I haven't tested this). Does Daemon Tools have this ability? If so, why does Alcohol not have it?

2. Come to think of it, if Alcohol and Daemon are so closely linked, why don't they just come together and create one program? We could be certain that all development was going to exactly the same place, rather than eventually getting from one to the other.

3. Just to know what they're working against, can Clone CD do image mounting?

Datatypes are just a pre-selection of available options.
The options are still manually selectable.

This would also mean that Daemon Tools would cease being available for free.

I haven't tried it in years, but it used to be able to.

CloneCD's Image Drive was dropped when they became a SlySoft company (However Elby still make the Virtual CloneDrive)

One thing I will say that supports Alcohol though is that it is still capable of producing playable images of almost all protections which can be mounted and played with D-Tools v4.

That's true.
Without Alcohol, D-Tools would be quite a lot less useful.

/rant 01

Two words:

Stop bitching!

A few more:

I borght A120% a while ago and have never regretted it. I love the program. The only thing that NEEDS to be updated is blacklisting (AFAIK there are only some atm). Also when a copy protection changes radicly (E.g SafeDisc 2.9 > 3.2) All this stuff about how its ancient software bla bla bla bla... plz just stop it. If you dont like the fact A120% isnt being updated every month, then code your own program. Go on off you go!

VH


/rant 00

Current Blacklists for out of the box A120% [that I know of]:
SafeDisc v4+
SecuROM v5+
StarForce v3+
ProtectCD v5+