copying a copy with safedisc 2.9 - Club CDFreaks

logicwatch · 29-04-2003

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet but I notice that the new safedisc 2.9.40 titles I have encounted ie. postal 2 / devastation/ tropico 2 although copy fine using latest alcohol
1.4.3.410 for the 1st time with safedisc I have found that you are unable then to copy your copy???????
although game appears to install fine the game will not run and comes up with a windows error in exe unable to start application.
This occurs with all copies of the original copy.
If you replace the disc with the 1st generation copy the game starts up ok!
I can only assume that somehow this newer safedisc somehow degrades the 1st generation copy thus stopping the copy of the copy ?
any thoughts or suggestions guys?
I use a liteon 48125w and standard safedisc 2 profile with alcohol 1.4.3.410 all previous safedisc versions before this one copied copies ok!

maximino72 · 29-04-2003

It may be we have understood what the new degrading signature is... bad move for us from Macrovision even if usually there's no need of a copy of the copy.

Btw it would be interesting to know if the copy of the copy can be mounted in a virtual cd.

Logicwatch: you always find out very bad copy protections: this time let's hope to me luckier than usual.

logicwatch · 29-04-2003

maximino72 as to your question as I suspected the same result in the alcohol virtual drive as when playing the 2nd generation copy with the remade image. however the image made from the
original copy mounts and plays fine as does that 1st generation copy. as you state there is some sort of degrading signature
affecting the playback of a 2nd generation copy . as I stated this is the 1st time I have seen this in a safedisc version.not too much of a problem so long as you always have your original cd or you can save the image to burn back from. anyone know if there is a way around? or is a newer version of alcohol required to burn the cd profile differently?:

*Lvsitano* · 29-04-2003

Why do you want to copy from a copy? If you have the original there's no need to copy from a copy

Alcohol 120% is not intended to backup copies.

logicwatch · 29-04-2003

you misunderstand me I have successfully backed up these titles with the original cds I am only stating with experimentation that the new version of safedisc degrades the exe somehow unlike other versions of safedisc isnt knowledge useful?

logicwatch · 29-04-2003

i have made successful back ups of all these new safedisc2.90 titles i was just
interested why the copy of the copy appears now not to work with this newer version of safedisc whereas before it always worked.if a degrading signature is made into the copy in this version of safedisc would it not seem pheasble that another newer version may make a 1st generation copy also impossible rendering alcohol useless ?????????
just thinking out loud?

maximino72 · 30-04-2003

you are totally right (my opinion); I think you should post a similar thread also in clonecd forum.
Greetings.

I agree with you when you say that, probably the next revision of safedisc could make alcohol useless:-(

**FutureProof** · 30-04-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by logicwatch
I can only assume that somehow this newer safedisc somehow degrades the 1st generation copy thus stopping the copy of the copy ?

No. There is a reason for this other than the protection. Search thru Oliver Kastl's posts (Olli) for some clues.

PAUL@LILLIEP. · 30-04-2003

NEW 2 THIS SITE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH SAFEDISC 2.90.40
DEVASTATION AND POSTAL 2.COPY WITH LITEON 48.CAN GET BOTH WORKING ON PACKARD BELL 1000GIG WITH ALL VIRTUAL DRIVES AND EMUS OFF.BUT CANT GET THEM 2 WORK ON ATHLON 2GIG.OR ATHLON TBIRD 1400.ALL VIRTUAL DRIVES AND EMUS OFF.USING LATEST ALCOHOL 2 COPY.

**FutureProof** · 30-04-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by PAUL@LILLIEP.
NEW 2 THIS SITE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH SAFEDISC 2.90.40
DEVASTATION AND POSTAL 2.COPY WITH LITEON 48.CAN GET BOTH WORKING ON PACKARD BELL 1000GIG WITH ALL VIRTUAL DRIVES AND EMUS OFF.BUT CANT GET THEM 2 WORK ON ATHLON 2GIG.OR ATHLON TBIRD 1400.ALL VIRTUAL DRIVES AND EMUS OFF.USING LATEST ALCOHOL 2 COPY.

All CAPS is considered shouting, please edit your post.

petspeed · 06-05-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by FutureProof
No. There is a reason for this other than the protection. Search thru Oliver Kastl's posts (Olli) for some clues.

I have read and reread all of Olli's recent posts and I can't seem to find a clue to this. Could you please be more specific? Thanx

*Namoh* · 06-05-2003

I can't think of any good reason either.

It almost seems like the copy is modified, wasn't this illegal!!

That's why we don't like emulation, because it's not a 1:1 copy.

@FutureProof, Can you tell me (us), which posts or clues your talking about?

wakemonkeypimp · 12-05-2003

i have ran across the same problem too.....this is with the discdump/fireburner process....

if you make a backup of a copy reading at max speed then the cd is basiclly crap..doesnt by-pass the protection one bit...

my solution that i have found that works perfectly and any other great infinitive out there is to read the cd at least 4x...

you can write at whatever speed you desire....its the reading process....read slower...8-1x and write as fast as you can...

i have a plextor 24/10/40a drive.....do all my reading and writing with that!!!!

hopefully that helps!!!

**FutureProof** · 12-05-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Namoh
I can't think of any good reason either.

It almost seems like the copy is modified, wasn't this illegal!!

That's why we don't like emulation, because it's not a 1:1 copy.

@FutureProof, Can you tell me (us), which posts or clues your talking about?

What can't be read can't be written and this goes for LaserLock, SafeDisc and Ring PROTECH. There is NO reading/burning application that reproduces the errors 1:1

Structure of backups

Allmighty · 15-05-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by logicwatch
i have made successful back ups of all these new safedisc2.90 titles i was just
interested why the copy of the copy appears now not to work with this newer version of safedisc whereas before it always worked.if a degrading signature is made into the copy in this version of safedisc would it not seem pheasble that another newer version may make a 1st generation copy also impossible rendering alcohol useless ?????????
just thinking out loud?

the safedisc 2.x Copies are no 1:1 Copies,
Blindwrite, Alcohol only have to adjust there burning filters, and taataattaa, the new Safedisc Version will be done !

*Namoh* · 15-05-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Allmighty

the safedisc 2.x Copies are no 1:1 Copies,
Blindwrite, Alcohol only have to adjust there burning filters, and taataattaa, the new Safedisc Version will be done !

What do you mean with burning filters??

I don't think it will be this simple, but correct me if I'm wrong (with evidence).

Allmighty · 15-05-2003

correcting the SD2 patterns bits, to write it in the right way -
to be playable

**FutureProof** · 15-05-2003

Yes, one of CloneCD's previous methods was to write an alternating pattern of 1 and 0 which is 0x55. Dunno what it does now. alexnoe has discovered, and posted on this site, over a hundred patterns that can't be read or written by a Lite-On. As long as the DSV is high enough they can't be reproduced. SafeDisc is primitive in this regard as well as encryption but the other technology involved may well be clever, again I dunno. I suppose, in the main, it is a matter of adjusting the pattern written to the copy. What other trickery is involved, apart from the first pregap, I have no idea (which is why I keep out of the Advanced Forum

)

*Shoebedobedoo* · 22-05-2003

The latest Alcohol 120 1.4.3.519 can make a backup of a backup of Safedisc 2.9.x. I already tried and tested and the backups play flawlessly on my Litey LTD 165H and Toshiba SD-M1502. Backups will also play in my Polaroid BurnMAX48x drive as well as long as Alcohol 120 is installed. I uninstalled Alcohol 120 and installed InseKtors and backups play in my burner just fine. I've yet to test on my Samsung CD-Rom drive.

Shoey

logicwatch · 25-05-2003

thanks for the news will give it a try and let you know!

29-04-2003	#1 (permalink)
logicwatch Retired Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: UK Posts: 316	copying a copy with safedisc 2.9 I dont know if this has been mentioned yet but I notice that the new safedisc 2.9.40 titles I have encounted ie. postal 2 / devastation/ tropico 2 although copy fine using latest alcohol 1.4.3.410 for the 1st time with safedisc I have found that you are unable then to copy your copy??????? although game appears to install fine the game will not run and comes up with a windows error in exe unable to start application. This occurs with all copies of the original copy. If you replace the disc with the 1st generation copy the game starts up ok! I can only assume that somehow this newer safedisc somehow degrades the 1st generation copy thus stopping the copy of the copy ? any thoughts or suggestions guys? I use a liteon 48125w and standard safedisc 2 profile with alcohol 1.4.3.410 all previous safedisc versions before this one copied copies ok!

29-04-2003	#2 (permalink)
maximino72 CD Freaks Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Italy Posts: 362	safedisc 2.9 It may be we have understood what the new degrading signature is... bad move for us from Macrovision even if usually there's no need of a copy of the copy. Btw it would be interesting to know if the copy of the copy can be mounted in a virtual cd. Logicwatch: you always find out very bad copy protections: this time let's hope to me luckier than usual. __________________ Massimo Last edited by maximino72; 29-04-2003 at 14:52.

29-04-2003	#4 (permalink)
Lvsitano Alcohol 120% Translator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Portugal Posts: 975	Why do you want to copy from a copy? If you have the original there's no need to copy from a copy Alcohol 120% is not intended to backup copies. __________________ AMD Athlon XP 2500+ (Barton core) ASUS A7N8X-X motherboard 1GB DDR PC3200 LiteON SOHD-16P9S DVD-ROM drive Lite-On LTR-52327S CD-RW drive NEC ND-4570 DVDRW drive Samsung 250GB ATA133 HDD Maxtor 20GB ATA100 HDD

30-04-2003	#7 (permalink)
maximino72 CD Freaks Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Italy Posts: 362	Safedisc 2.9 you are totally right (my opinion); I think you should post a similar thread also in clonecd forum. Greetings. I agree with you when you say that, probably the next revision of safedisc could make alcohol useless:-( __________________ Massimo

30-04-2003	#9 (permalink)
PAUL@LILLIEP. New on Forum Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NORTHERN IRELAND Posts: 2	safe disc 2.90.40.PROBLEMS NEW 2 THIS SITE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH SAFEDISC 2.90.40 DEVASTATION AND POSTAL 2.COPY WITH LITEON 48.CAN GET BOTH WORKING ON PACKARD BELL 1000GIG WITH ALL VIRTUAL DRIVES AND EMUS OFF.BUT CANT GET THEM 2 WORK ON ATHLON 2GIG.OR ATHLON TBIRD 1400.ALL VIRTUAL DRIVES AND EMUS OFF.USING LATEST ALCOHOL 2 COPY. __________________ KING PAUL

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29-04-2003	#3 (permalink)
logicwatch Retired Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: UK Posts: 316	maximino72 as to your question as I suspected the same result in the alcohol virtual drive as when playing the 2nd generation copy with the remade image. however the image made from the original copy mounts and plays fine as does that 1st generation copy. as you state there is some sort of degrading signature affecting the playback of a 2nd generation copy . as I stated this is the 1st time I have seen this in a safedisc version.not too much of a problem so long as you always have your original cd or you can save the image to burn back from. anyone know if there is a way around? or is a newer version of alcohol required to burn the cd profile differently?:

29-04-2003	#5 (permalink)
logicwatch Retired Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: UK Posts: 316	you misunderstand me I have successfully backed up these titles with the original cds I am only stating with experimentation that the new version of safedisc degrades the exe somehow unlike other versions of safedisc isnt knowledge useful?

29-04-2003	#6 (permalink)
logicwatch Retired Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: UK Posts: 316	i have made successful back ups of all these new safedisc2.90 titles i was just interested why the copy of the copy appears now not to work with this newer version of safedisc whereas before it always worked.if a degrading signature is made into the copy in this version of safedisc would it not seem pheasble that another newer version may make a 1st generation copy also impossible rendering alcohol useless ????????? just thinking out loud?

06-05-2003	#12 (permalink)
Namoh CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Somewhere in space Posts: 6,286	I can't think of any good reason either. It almost seems like the copy is modified, wasn't this illegal!! That's why we don't like emulation, because it's not a 1:1 copy. @FutureProof, Can you tell me (us), which posts or clues your talking about? __________________ When you're little, what you really want is for grown-ups to make the world a safe place where dreams can come true and promises are never broken. And when you're little, it doesn't seem like a lot to ask. Women might be able to fake orgasms. But men can fake whole relationships. New rig: Antec P182 Super Mid Tower, Intel Quad Q6600 2.4Ghz @ 3.0Ghz, Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme, Kingston 4Gb 1066Mhz dual channel, MSI NX8800GTX OC Edition 768 MB, 4 x 500 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10, Asus DRW-1814BLT DVD-RW, NEC AD-7173S DVD-RW, NEC 3,5" diskdrive, Logitech X-540 speakers, Samsung TFT SyncMaster 245B, Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer, Be Quiet Dark Power Pro 850Watt, dual boot Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista.

12-05-2003	#13 (permalink)
wakemonkeypimp CD Freaks Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: pimpin in Tampa, Fl Posts: 407	i have ran across the same problem too.....this is with the discdump/fireburner process.... if you make a backup of a copy reading at max speed then the cd is basiclly crap..doesnt by-pass the protection one bit... my solution that i have found that works perfectly and any other great infinitive out there is to read the cd at least 4x... you can write at whatever speed you desire....its the reading process....read slower...8-1x and write as fast as you can... i have a plextor 24/10/40a drive.....do all my reading and writing with that!!!! hopefully that helps!!!

15-05-2003	#17 (permalink)
Allmighty CD Freaks Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 181	correcting the SD2 patterns bits, to write it in the right way - to be playable

15-05-2003	#18 (permalink)
FutureProof Senior Admin Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: True Blue Posts: 5,606	Yes, one of CloneCD's previous methods was to write an alternating pattern of 1 and 0 which is 0x55. Dunno what it does now. alexnoe has discovered, and posted on this site, over a hundred patterns that can't be read or written by a Lite-On. As long as the DSV is high enough they can't be reproduced. SafeDisc is primitive in this regard as well as encryption but the other technology involved may well be clever, again I dunno. I suppose, in the main, it is a matter of adjusting the pattern written to the copy. What other trickery is involved, apart from the first pregap, I have no idea (which is why I keep out of the Advanced Forum ) __________________ :ÐowN AsS ± ßû(r)NêR: Try our Search function > Words on Netiquette 24, 32, 40 & 52X Liteons, 16, 40, 48 & 52X ASUS', Ricoh MP7163A, Acer 1610A CD writers; Toshiba SD-M1402, Hitachi GD-7500 & Liteon LTD-163D DVD-ROMs; Toshiba SD-R1202 DVD-ROM/CD writer combo; NEC CloneDrive; Matshita DVD RAM/-R/-RW UJ-810 PEBKAC: Click here when asked AXDA3000DKV4D Atlhon 3000+ Model 10 Barton; Twin, Dual-Channeled Corsair CMX512-2700C2 @ 2-3-3-6-T1; GA-7N400 Pro F12; crappy vid card; Twin (base) WD2500JD drives There are two secrets to success: 1) Don't tell everyone everything There are 10 types of people who understand binary: those who do and those who don't Who Are YOU?

22-05-2003	#19 (permalink)
Shoebedobedoo CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: USA, Central Ohio Posts: 568	The latest Alcohol 120 1.4.3.519 can make a backup of a backup of Safedisc 2.9.x. I already tried and tested and the backups play flawlessly on my Litey LTD 165H and Toshiba SD-M1502. Backups will also play in my Polaroid BurnMAX48x drive as well as long as Alcohol 120 is installed. I uninstalled Alcohol 120 and installed InseKtors and backups play in my burner just fine. I've yet to test on my Samsung CD-Rom drive. Shoey __________________ Asus K8N Athlon 64 3200+ Corsair XMS 1 gig PC4000 ATI Radeon 9600 Pro XT (256 DDR) HD: Hitachi 80 gig SATA\150 DVD-ROM1: Lite-ON SOHD 167T BenQ 1640 Firmware BSMB(QSuite 2.1) Plextor PX-712SA TLA# 0105A Firmware 1.08

25-05-2003	#20 (permalink)
logicwatch Retired Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: UK Posts: 316	thanks for the news will give it a try and let you know!

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