High Definition Compatible Digital - Club CD Freaks

Dillweed · 12-12-2002

I want to back up 2 of my HDCD CD's http://www.hdcd.com/

I usually use plextools to encode wav's, but wav format is only 16 bit, and HDCD is 20 bit....

The way I understand it, with an HDCD disc, the extra 4 bits of information are squeezed into the cda track on the audio CD without changing the bitrate (still only 1114kbps), but only HDCD players are able to recognize & take advantage of the extra 4 bits of info... I'm assuming that if I rip HDCD tracks to wav, that I'll lose the extra fidelity in the recording since the software isn't an HDCD player......

If I use plextools to copy an audio disc (not DAE, just make a copy) will that copy the cda tracks bit for bit? Even if I grab the disc image with EAC, that still makes a wav file doesn't it? What do you guys think about this?

damiandimitri · 12-12-2002

can you make a backup with wmp9?? it seems to support 24 bit cd's

or just use clonecd or blindsuite?

Pio2001 · 12-12-2002

You can copy HDCD into 44.1 kHz 16 bits without loosing any info.
The extra 4 bits are partly a volume setting encrypted into the last of the 16 bits, and partly dithering hype.
Burning the wav on a CDR, it will be recognized as HDCD in a proper CD Player.
Unlike CD Text, all the extra HD info is encrypted inside the audio part at -90db and more than 16 kHz, not into subchannels.
Don't normalize or apply any process, or you'll loose the HD content.

Dillweed · 13-12-2002

Excellent reply Pio2001! -- Thank you very much for the info. Good to hear that I can rip my HDCD discs just like my normal ones

Thank you too damiandimitri -- You reminded me to ask about the 24-bit remaster cd's I was wondering about. Whats the deal with those?

1.) Pio2001, does the information you gave me apply to the 24-bit discs also? How are they different from HDCD?

2.) Do you need a special cd player to recognize the extra 8 bits of info in them?

3.) Can I also rip them into 44.1khz 16bit wav files without losing the extra fidelity?

-----------

Pio2001 · 13-12-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Dillweed
Thank you too damiandimitri -- You reminded me to ask about the 24-bit remaster cd's I was wondering about. Whats the deal with those?

There is no such thing as 24 bits CD. What can be called a 24 bits remaster is a new 16 bits CD mastered from a 24 bits tape.
All audio CDs are strictly 16 bits, even HDCD ones.

The process called dithering, explained here, allows to increase the definition of low frequencies adding high frequency noise. CDs processed this way are sometimes said to have "20 bits quality", for example.

Dillweed · 14-12-2002

Very informative link.

Thanks again

damiandimitri · 14-12-2002

yes..sorry...it is 20 bits.not 24

Dillweed · 07-01-2003

If I take the HDCD wavs and encode them to Monkeys Audio, will I still retain the HDCD content even then?

Pio2001 · 07-01-2003

Of course... because Monkey's audio doesn't change anything.

damiandimitri · 07-01-2003

Off topic

Pio, could it be that i saw your name also on a mpc or eac forum??

Pio2001 · 07-01-2003

Yes, you can see me on a regular basis in Hydrogenaudio.org, EAC forum, Here, and Afterdawn.com, as well as short appearances in a few other places.

lkM3km0 · 14-10-2003

Can I rip HDCDs with audiograbber and loose no quality?

lkM3km0 · 14-10-2003

Im ripping them as wavs

12-12-2002	#1 (permalink)
Dillweed CD Freaks Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USA Posts: 65	High Definition Compatible Digital <a href='http://adstats.cdfreaks.com/www/delivery/ck.php?n=a13febf7&cb=INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_HERE' target='_blank'><img src='http://adstats.cdfreaks.com/www/delivery/avw.php?zoneid=30&cb=INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_HERE&n=a13febf7' border='0' alt='' /></a> I want to back up 2 of my HDCD CD's http://www.hdcd.com/ I usually use plextools to encode wav's, but wav format is only 16 bit, and HDCD is 20 bit.... The way I understand it, with an HDCD disc, the extra 4 bits of information are squeezed into the cda track on the audio CD without changing the bitrate (still only 1114kbps), but only HDCD players are able to recognize & take advantage of the extra 4 bits of info... I'm assuming that if I rip HDCD tracks to wav, that I'll lose the extra fidelity in the recording since the software isn't an HDCD player...... If I use plextools to copy an audio disc (not DAE, just make a copy) will that copy the cda tracks bit for bit? Even if I grab the disc image with EAC, that still makes a wav file doesn't it? What do you guys think about this?

12-12-2002	#3 (permalink)
Pio2001 CD Freaks Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 364	You can copy HDCD into 44.1 kHz 16 bits without loosing any info. The extra 4 bits are partly a volume setting encrypted into the last of the 16 bits, and partly dithering hype. Burning the wav on a CDR, it will be recognized as HDCD in a proper CD Player. Unlike CD Text, all the extra HD info is encrypted inside the audio part at -90db and more than 16 kHz, not into subchannels. Don't normalize or apply any process, or you'll loose the HD content. __________________ No, I don't want to install Flash Player 6 !!

13-12-2002	#4 (permalink)
Dillweed CD Freaks Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USA Posts: 65	Thanks U! Excellent reply Pio2001! -- Thank you very much for the info. Good to hear that I can rip my HDCD discs just like my normal ones Thank you too damiandimitri -- You reminded me to ask about the 24-bit remaster cd's I was wondering about. Whats the deal with those? 1.) Pio2001, does the information you gave me apply to the 24-bit discs also? How are they different from HDCD? 2.) Do you need a special cd player to recognize the extra 8 bits of info in them? 3.) Can I also rip them into 44.1khz 16bit wav files without losing the extra fidelity? -----------

14-12-2002	#6 (permalink)
Dillweed CD Freaks Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USA Posts: 65	thx again Very informative link. Thanks again

07-01-2003	#8 (permalink)
Dillweed CD Freaks Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USA Posts: 65	One Last Thing..... If I take the HDCD wavs and encode them to Monkeys Audio, will I still retain the HDCD content even then?

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12-12-2002	#2 (permalink)
damiandimitri CD Freak Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: netherlands Posts: 3,535	can you make a backup with wmp9?? it seems to support 24 bit cd's or just use clonecd or blindsuite?

14-12-2002	#7 (permalink)
damiandimitri CD Freak Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: netherlands Posts: 3,535	yes..sorry...it is 20 bits.not 24

07-01-2003	#9 (permalink)
Pio2001 CD Freaks Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 364	Of course... because Monkey's audio doesn't change anything. __________________ No, I don't want to install Flash Player 6 !!

07-01-2003	#10 (permalink)
damiandimitri CD Freak Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: netherlands Posts: 3,535	Off topic Pio, could it be that i saw your name also on a mpc or eac forum??

07-01-2003	#11 (permalink)
Pio2001 CD Freaks Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 364	Yes, you can see me on a regular basis in Hydrogenaudio.org, EAC forum, Here, and Afterdawn.com, as well as short appearances in a few other places. __________________ No, I don't want to install Flash Player 6 !!

14-10-2003	#12 (permalink)
lkM3km0 New on Forum Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3	Can I rip HDCDs with audiograbber and loose no quality?

14-10-2003	#13 (permalink)
lkM3km0 New on Forum Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3	Im ripping them as wavs

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