Ongoing supply problems force me to look for alternatives to Verbatim.

I found Nashua DVD+R x16 for a decent price, and my experience with Nashua CD-R (Prodisc) was positive, so I'm considering that (sadly there aren't many options here but Teac and some nonames).

Does anyone have any experience (particularly long-term) with them?

Any idea who might be manufacturing them (I think it said Made in Hong Kong, but I'm not absolutely sure)?

If they were indeed made in Hong Kong, I would almost instantly question the longevity given past experience with HK discs.

Of Nashua/Hong Kong, or Hong Kong in general? Whose plants are in Hong Kong anyway?

And what about Nashua in general?

HK discs are also usually just crud. Few Honk Kong discs are easily identified as being made by a specific manufacturer. Many of them "borrow" media codes that belong to other disc models, and there's little other information that can be discovered from the discs.

Nashua appears to use whatever discs they can get, and these discs aren't always good quality.

That's unfortunate. I'll have to see what other brands I can find locally.

Is the Nashua DVD situation radically different from their CD-R media? At the end of my CD-R era they were my usual good quality (Prodisc) media after the TDKs I could find were all mediocre. Nashua even had quality jewelcases (unlike those TDK).

I'm not really sure about the CD-R. A quick Google search of the CDF site shows that people had a bit more faith in Nashua-branded CD-R than its DVD media, though not much. I wouldn't recommend them, but they're worth a try.

So sad. Another once premium brand down the toilet. I fondly remember the old days when Nashua was the Taiyo Yuden of floppy disks.

i had some nashua cd-rs they were awesome still read 10 years on

The cd-rw's I had of Nashua were very crapy.
The old markers were bad.(old cd-r times, so 10 years ago) The new ones are ok.

But on topic.
The Nashua dvd's.
Can be:
fake MCC codes stuff.
FTI
Daxon

The FTI +R's are not a bad option if your drive supports them well that is, because compatability is a bit mixed.

People were impressed with some Daxon types, no?

What's "fake MCC"? (Surely Mitsubishi would sue Nashua if misused?)

The drive's NEC 7200.

But I think I'll try to find other brands (maybe TDK, or HP).

Daxon discs are usually passable for day-to-day stuff. Not much has been said about them for long-term storage/backup. But the AD-7200 should do well with them.

No, no. See, Nashua only has their name put on the discs by whomever actually MAKES the discs. I don't think they would sue Nashua for that reason.

There are a lot of different disc makers that use the MCC codes on discs that aren't actually MCC models, most of which currently come from Chinese & Hong Kong factories. This is done mostly/completely without Verbatim/Mitsubishi knowing. [This borrowing/faking is not to be confused with Verbatim/Mitsubishi outsourcing some of its media production, where MBI, Prodisc, and CMC make legitimate MCC/MKM models for Verbatim].

This media code borrowing/faking has been going on for a while, and neither Taiyo Yuden [who also has had its media codes borrowed without knowledge] nor Mitsubishi Chemicals has specifically done anything about it as far as lawsuits goes.

Maybe I'm mistaken and it wasn't Daxon that people praised here. I couldn't find now the references I was thinking about.

Are you saying that also the Nashua name is borrowed? :) What's the point?

Why use MCC wrongfully when most people don't even know these identifiers exist? Why wouldn't the real code owners chase these manufacturers? Surely it's possible to track.

And as an aside, where does all the local knowledge about fakes, real manufacturers, plant locations, subcontractors, intricacies of packaging and various codes, come from? Are there insiders on the forums or how could one otherwise research all of that? :)

Don't get me wrong, now. Daxon makes some good media. Most of the time, though, CD Freaks' members just have a preference of using even better media. Note, though, that Daxon does get the occasional praise. Nashua doesn't actually make the discs [as far as I know]; they just have discs made FOR them by others [as many other brands are].Because the MCC and TY codes are some of the most well supported codes by drives. When all these smaller companies try to produce media with their own codes, they seem to have a hard time getting their codes added to the drives. So, to increase the chance that their media will actually work [although poorly, in some situations], they use the best, more well-supported media codes available.I speculate that because it's not worth the time. It's not really detrimental to the write strategies [genuine TY and MCC media still are written well], and it doesn't seem to directly affect the amount of Verbatim and TY media purchased [as long as there are people around to clarify what is and isn't genuine].

Plus, some of these smaller companies could be hard to find because they use generic production equipment made by other companies, so there's not always a definite way to track them down.

We have some specific media gurus that have the know-how and the ability to find all this information, sometimes directly by asking the companies. [For instance, some reviewers have been able to directly ask Verbatim if Brands X, Y, and Z are actually licensed/contracted to use or make MCC/MKM media].

Kodak are the same here in the UK. Everyone assumes a Kodak brand blank CD or DVD will be good quality. They outsource their production to whoever gives them the best price. Kodak discs here are usually made in Hong Kong with AML media codes.

They are passable for everyday use, but I wouldn't trust them for much else.

At the end of the day, people spot a brand they are aware of, and most (non cdfreaks members) people just assume they will be good, hence Kodak, Nashua and similar brands sell second rate media.

Still I think I got it wrong. I vaguely remembered seeing some raving posts about getting unexpectedly very good results from a lowly manufacturer (I remembered AZ3, <100 PIF per disc), but I now think it was something else and I can't track it down.

Of course. I thought you meant that not only the manufacturer uses someone else's MIDs, but they also label the packaging with someone else's brand. But you meant the usual outsourcing/subcontracting.

What good would that do if the actual media doesn't have characteristics similar to the real thing? Wouldn't it work just as well using the drive's default strategy?

Or more likely because 99.9% of customers don't even know it exists and 90% of those who do don't care. :)

I think even more would just buy whatever happens to be there or is the cheapest (Princo? :)

Actually, a lot of drives will do way worse with a default strategy on most media, even generic stuff. Somehow, the MCCand TY codes seem to do OK as long as the right one is chosen.So true.

Collusion between drive and disc manufacturers? :)

Wrong.
TY in the cd-r ages has taken compannies to court. Ty has threatened brands, distrbuters and manufacturers in case of code abuse, with quite some succes.
MCC,Maxell,Sony and Ritek have taken some actions as well. Specially Ritek.

TY and Ritek would do it. The difference is Ritek would act fast, but constructive. TY would take extreme long time of finding out and then already talk directly about legal consequences.


This is done. But the point is that it's not that easy like Albert says.
I've seen media with borrowed/faked code which is as good as untrackable.
The big compannies do not act if they are not completely sure of how the thing works and who is involved.

My experience with Daxon was that they scan, really nice, but playback compatability was quite bad. I've had quite some problems with devices not recognizing that there was a disc in a device, while that disc scanned beautifull. Reason for me to not recommend Daxon. Now in Daxons defens I have to say that the Daxons used were of a cheap ass brand.

Default strategy means not the maximum burn speed. (So much for the advertised 16x media, which burns only at 2.4x !). ALso in most cases the default strategy burns initially with worse quality.
In some cases drives do not have a default strategy !

One last thing FAKE MCC is no alternative for real MCC.

Not the playback compatability
(most times) Not the burn quality
Not the stability
Not the support


So Hongkong Nashua is not an alternative to verbatim even while the disc's might have the same MID. (From which the nashua one uses the abused/borrowed one !)

Alternatives which score as good as verbatim on all 5 points(Stability,Playback,Support,burn quality,availability ) are rare these days.

I didn't suggest that. Just looking for worthy alternatives, whatever they may be.

MCC was just brought up during the conversation. I don't have any specific reason to believe these Nashua identify as MCC.

I so stand corrected. Thanks, dakhaas.