Further to my previous post regarding weird sizes in Windows Media Player of .MP2 files created by TMPGEnc:

When I view the large .MP2 in the JACKET_P folder of a pressed DVD in Windows Media Player, it reports the size as 720X540 rather than 720X480. This is on a commercial DVD which does display correctly. So, is WMP reporting wrong sizes (doubtful), or if not, why is the commercial picture 720X540, but everyone says to make them 720X480 (NTSC)? 720X540 is actually the 4:3 ratio. Any ideas?

Okay, I've been experimenting with settings in TMPGEnc. The _only_ setting I've found which creates an image that shows the correct size in WMP, is to encode as MPEG1 rather than MPEG2. I burned a DVD with a JACKET_P containing the three files in correct size and with correct names, but encoded as MPEG1. The results were exactly the same as my previous try with MPEG2 images. I believe that if all other factors were correct, that MPEG1 images would probably work just fine, although there'd be no reason to bother with MPEG1 if we could the MPEG2 to work in the first place.

BUT, there is some other missing factor. The JACKET_P is part of the DVD-Video specification. If Maestro and other expensive softwares can create them, there's no reason that other software should not likewise also be able to create them. The trick is in getting the format just _exactly_ right. So, what is the secret, and why is it so closely guarded/hidden?

"The trick is in getting the format just _exactly_ right. So, what is the secret, and why is it so closely guarded/hidden?" To be honest, 90% of people dont have a need for it, only those with Sony players and then not everyone is backing up their collection of dvd's either. I have seen very few DVD's with that folder as well, so most of Hollywood dont care either, sorry but thats the way it seams to be.

Okay. Well, I'll keep plugging away .

Success!

I've managed to create perfect JACKET_P pictures with TMPGEnc. I've written it up here http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=102533.

Now to figure out how to improve the quality of the burned movie .

I've actually moved it to the Tutorial section and fixed the images for ya

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=102533

Great job JoeJusta, well done.

Thanks, ChickenMan. The images uploaded just fine, but they all displayed at the end of the post; I couldn't get them to display in-line. How'd ya do dat ?

I actually posted the images on our CDFreaks images ftp site and just linked to them and deleted the attachments. If you ever need to update them or anything I will have to do the adjustment for you.

Try Intervideo WinDVD creator

Hi Bry. Okay, I've tried TMPGEnc encoding with Bottom Field First and with Top Field First. I definately see what you mean about the "jumpiness" when the fields are in the wrong order (Top First).

But even with the fields in the correct order (Bottom First in TMPGEnc, or Upper First in CCE ?), and having used Nero, TMPGEnc and CCE with various settings, I'm still getting poor results.

What I'm seeing with all three encoders, is: 1) blotchy patches when there is movement, 2) jagged edges, 3) horizontal lines, and 4) jumpiness or shimmering.

The horizontal lines (3), I've read, are referred to by some as "interlace lines". But, my source is interlaced from VHS tape, captured with VirtualDub, encoded with any of the three encoders mentioned, then authored and burned, and at every step of the way, I've made sure that whereever there is an Interlace setting, that it is set for Interlaced, and not Non-Interlaced. At no point, as far as I know, am I doing a De-interlace. So, the result _should_ be interlaced, which is what I want for display on a TV. So, from whence appear these horizontal lines?

The jumpiness (4), even when the field order is correct, is more like a shimmering. It's rather like the effect of the wrong field order, but to a much lower degree.

These problems occur to various degrees no matter which encoder I use. I've also tried captureing with and without Huffy compression, so it's not the codec. And, I've tried different authoring, so it's not that.

I've googled for "Bit Rate Viewer" and hit a couple different programs, but nothing that seems to give me the information you mentioned. Can you point me to a source for the "Bit Rate Viewer" you're referring to?

So, is there something obvious I've missed? What's going wrong?

Bitrate Viewer - http://www.tecoltd.com/bitratev.htm

As for your interlacing problems, have a look at changing your capturing program. I use Ulead StudioVideo 7 and have none of the problems your talking about. If your source capture has problems then nothing you do afterwards will fix it 100%.

Thanks for the link, ChickenMan. I've downloaded Bitrate Viewer and gave it a shot. Very strange. I've looked at two of my commercial purchased movie DVDs, Frequency and The Russia House, as well as a bunch of VOBs that I've created from captures. In every case, Bitrate Viewer says Field topfirst YES ! It says about one of the commercial ones, Interlaced; about the other commercial one, Progressive. All of the ones I've made show Progressive. Hmmm... so what's it all mean?

Unfortunately to many dvds VOB files have wrong Interlaced or Progressive flags. I tend to use what ever the DCT Type reads, if its Field then its Interlaced, if Frame, then Progressive. Thats regardless of what Frame Type indicates.

When you see those "interlaced lines" during playback, it normally means an Interlaced source has been reencoded to progressive without any proper conversion. Whats it mean, well if you captured it interlaced, when you converted the avi to mpeg its come out progressive. In CCE, make sure Linear Quantizer Scale, Zig Zag Scanning order & Progressive Frames are not ticked and it will keep the original interlaced structure of the source avi.

Joe Justa:

I too have gotten poor video quality from NeroVision Express 2. I have seen the same things as you, including: Jumpy/Jittery video, poor quality, tiling, etc.

I believe that their MPEG encoder is pretty poor. (I've done a lot of tests to eliminate other factors including media, system resources, the capture device, the capturing software, etc.)

By the way, Nero's MPEG encoder will re-encode an MPEG file that you have added to the project, even if you have not edited it. So if you are doing MPEG encoding with another package and then trying to use NeroVision Express to create the menus and burn the disc, you are still hosed.

I donwloaded trials from Pinnacle, Ulead and Intervideo, and tried using them all to take the same piece of captured video, add menus, and burn to DVD. I was happiest with Pinnacle. (See this thread for more detail. I finally gave up on Nero and bought a copy of Pinnacle Stuido 9. Final quality was MUCH better.

BTW, I tried to get help from Nero support. I got stock replies from them at first. Then I sent them a VERY detailed list of what I was doing, as well as a lot of detail on remedies I had tried (which were as extreme as swapping in a faster hard drive). They realized I knew what I was doing, and turned it over to someone to do some internal testing. In his reply, he basically admitted that he, too, was getting not-so-good video qualtiy.

Good luck,
- caa100

ChickenMan, thanks for the info. I've examined several of my DVDs, including some of the commercial ones (8) I purchased, and ones I've burned (8), for those fields you mentioned, and compiled the results:

So, if I understand you correctly, it would appear that in the table above, movies 1 and 8 have an incorrect Frame type field (Frame type says Progressive, but DCT says Field)?

But the Scan type (ZigZag or Alternate), Quantscale (Linear or Nonlinear), and Field topfirst (Yes or No) are a mixed bag in these 8 commercial DVDs, yet all play just fine.

In all the DVDs I examined that I've burned, DCT is Frame and Field type is Progressive, so they definately are coming out as Progressive, no matter which encoder was used. In CCE, I've found the ZigZag and Progressive boxes to ensure they are not ticked, but cannot find the Linear Quantizer Scale box you mentioned?

My VHS video sources are definately Interlaced, but my results are seemingly always progressive, regardless of the encoder. I'm beginning to wonder whether either the hardware (Hauppauge WinTV-Go-FM), or the capture software (VirtualDub) is converting to Progressive. Unfortunately, Bitrate Viewer does not show AVI files, so I can't tell whether the AVIs going into the encoder are Interlaced or Progressive.

Does any of this provide any further clue to you?

caa100: thanks for the reply. I also discovered that NeroVision would recode even when the source was a proper MPEG2 .

Which Ulead product did you evaluate? I installed the demo of MovieFactory, but it would not run. I've since found on their site a patch to correct the error, so I can now try that one. I'll also try the demos of the other two you mentioned.

Ulead Video Studio works for me. I have a nVideo video card with Video In as my capture card and results are very good indead.

As for your table, your right it is a total mixed bag. Do assume Bitrate Viewer is getting it 100% correct either. As I've said, I use the DCT indicator as to wherether it is Interlaced or not. Field - Interlaced, Frame - progressive and has ALWAYS worked for me when using DVD2SVVCD w/CCE to do the encoding.

Here is what I tried: Ulead Movie Factory Trial, Intervideo WinDVD Creator Trial and Pinnacle Studio 9 Trial. In another thread, TMPGenc Author got a good recommendation, but I did not try it. (You said you've already looked at it anyway.)

By the way, Nero support sent me a note that the new version of nero posted on 8/13/04 (Nero 6.3.1.20 and NeroVision 2.1.2.18) has an improved MPEG encoder. Tried it out. Sad to say, it is no better. Like you, I *wanted* nero to work out. It just didn't.

I liked Pinnacle the best and wound up buying a copy. The final video quality is much better, and the user interface is excellent. (Just being able to maximize the window makes it easier to use than Nero!) I've read on their boards that there was a history of bugs, but I had no problems with the trial version.

It doesnt have as many menu templates as Nero, but I spent a while with it and managed to produce my own. (When I purchased a licensed copy, it came with more menu templates, but I still preferred creating my own.)

One warning, and that is that the fully licensed version loads you up on menus, sound effects, and fancy transitions many of which are are "watermarked" -- you need to pay extra to use them. Just an annoyance, really, as I have been doing just fine with the included ones.

Sorry, the link to the Pinnacle trial download was wrong.

This is the correct link: Studio 9 Trial

Sorry!

(Didn't you used to be able to edit posts on this board?)

caa100: good information . Thanks for the links. The MovieFactory Trial is the one that wouldn't run without error until I downloaded and applied a patch from the Ulead site to correct the error. So, now I'll be looking at that one.

I'm downloading the one you liked, Studio 9 Trial from Pinnacle, even as I type this, and will also download the Intervideo offering, WinDVD Creator Trial. I will give them a look as soon as time permits.

Yes, I tried TMPGEnc DVD Author. At first blush, it appeared to be no better than Ahead's offering. But after further evaluation, it turns out to be actually somewhat better than NeroVision, though still too lacking in features for my needs. My biggest problem with it is that, when authoring a compilation from several MPEG files, the resulting burned disk, when played back, exhibits a slight pause at each point where the content transitions from one MPEG to another. Rather like the pause one sees on DVD9's at the layer change. Disks authored with NeroVision show no such problem.

When evaluating a new software product, I generally do so on a testbed installation, rather than on my main system. Even so, I'm concerned when I see things such as you warn about, where a product installs unneccesary or unusable components, or indeed installs anything without your knowledge or express permission. I'm always very wary of inadvertantly loading adware, spyware, or any form of malware. Can these 'watermarked' components be skipped at install, or afterward uninstalled, or at least deleted from the hard drive?

On the other hand, I am encouraged by your satisfaction with the product. Particularly the ability to create one's own menus, etc., rather than being limited to a group of preselected templates .

ChickenMan: you mention Ulead VideoStudio. I see it is priced the same as Pinnacle Studio 9; twice that of Ulead's MovieFactory, which I'm about to evaluate. Is VideoStudio that much better than MovieFactory? Worthy of a seperate evaluation?

Hmm.. not sure, its been a long time since I've use MovieFactory and I dont currently have it installed. But then again, I only use Ulead VideoStudio for the Capturing bit, I would never ever use its editing, encoding, authoring, burning side of things of it as there are better separate programs for those steps IMHO. But it is simple to use as its all in the one program, thats why they make it

As for pricing of different software from the same company, you get what you pay for. But then again the capturing engine might be identical in both programs, I really dont know if it is or is not.

Yeah, you don't need to install the extras, they come on a separate disc. In fact, when you install the trial version, you dont get any of them. Also, it is built around a plug-in architecture, so you can also simply delete all the menus/transition effects/sound effecs/etc. Each is a file.

I think you will like the level of control you get when designing menus. You can rearrange, designate what buttons do, etc. The trial does not come with many good ones, but you should be able to get a good idea of how things will work. You can also add your own buttons/backgrounds/etc. using TGA format. (Set the alpha channel to identify any portion that should be transparent or display a preview thumbnail.) I also used the JPG backgrounds from Nero (getting my money's worth out of that product!)

The menus took me a while to get the hang of, but that is mostly because you can do so much more with them. I would recommend you donwload the manual and look at the sections on Disc Menus (which talks about how you integrate the menus with your content) and the Title Editor (which is where you can build menus.) The manual can be found in the support section of their site.

Hint: I did struggle for a while with it placing the chapters out of sequence. Then I realized that my chapter thumbnails on the menu I created were touching each other, causing the problem.

Okay, I've tried out a number of these softwares, with less than stellar results . Authoring, transcoding, etc. all seem to be adequately addressed by one software or another. The problem seems to be an inability to get good capture results. Whether the problem is hardware, software, or a combination, I'm not sure.

Though it's been more than 30 days, perhaps I'll investigate the possibility of returning this Hauppauge WinTVGO-FM tuner/capture card. They may accept it back for the sake of good customer relations. If not, I'm out less than a hundred bucks.

For the record, I don't think the problem is with this particular model or design. Rather, I think that this type of hardware capture followed by software transcoding just isn't up to snuff. I don't really know whether or not a card with hardware MPEG2 encoding would do a much better job. From the reviews I've read, it seems that standalone DVD Recorders actually do a great job, but they are still too expensive for me. So, I guess I'll just leave my VHS video on tape until they have come down in price, and instead concentrate on the other uses of my DVD+/-RW drive, such as data backup and DVD backup.

To which end, I'm still interested in good software recommendations. One particular point is stumping me right now, and that is how to edit VOB files.

Here's the scenario: you use DVDDecrypt to rip the DVD to your hard drive, DVDShrink (or Nero Recode) to shrink to fit, then Nero or some other burning software to burn. All well and good, and I've had great results. But, suppose you want to do a bit of editing. Say, to remove commercials, or to cut a few scenes. What software will actually edit a VOB file in place?

I've given MPEG2VCR a look, and it is a very nice piece of software. But, their claim that it edits VOB files is at best a misnomer. What it does do, is load VOB files. But after edit, what it writes is just a standard MPEG2 stream, not a VOB file. And therefore, you need once again to reauthor. And I've discovered that TMPGEnc DVD Author, like NeroVision, also does a (unnecessary) recode when authoring from files which are already MPEG2. Is there any software which will edit a VOB file in place, and automatically update the IFO files, etc.?

Hello,

I have avi movie files of an series, I want to encode it to be able to burn it on dvd with an menu, I saw tmpgenc has an good dvd source creator (used it already), I like windvd creator for making the dvd complete with background images, menu making, background music, can windvd creator burn the avi directly into mpeg2 on a dvd ? or must you make mpeg2 files first, can windvd creator do this like tmpgenc source creator ?