Hi,

I am not surprised that there are no posts about this since I can barely even think of any movies that actually use angles, but there are at least a few that do.

I normally use CloneDVD for simple, straightforward things, and DVD Shrink when I want to super-compress the extras to fit the main title. I also use DVD Shrink when I want to mess around with the author mode, like when combining two discs into one (just yesterday I put the extras from disc two of Black Christmas on a disc with the English movie—who wants to drag themselves out of bed in the middle of the night to change discs? )

Anyway, I occasionally run into weird problems with DVD Shrink with some titles, especially ones with angles. CloneDVD gives you a compression percentage when you add a title, then only slightly decreases it when you add another one of that same title’s angles (which makes sense, since only a little bit of the title is new information). DVD Shrink on the other hand treats each angle as a whole separate title. So for example, a 3GB title with 3 angles in CloneDVD would be ~3GB in total, but DVD Shrink asks for 9GB.

It’s the same situation with “theatrical/DVD versions”, and the like. For example in CloneDVD, a 3GB title with two versions would be about ~3-3.5GB in total (one version may have a different ending, or an extra scene or something), while in DVD Shrink, they are treated as separate titles and required 6-6.5GB.

Also, I’ve seen DVD Shrink freak out over some titles that in CloneDVD appear normal (eg “Title 1”), but in DVD Shrink appear fragmented (eg “Title 1”, “Title 1 (continued)”, “Title 2 (continued)”, “Title 2 (continued)”…).

So what’s the deal? Is DVD Shrink simply incapable of handling these types of discs because it’s old and discontinued or is there a way/trick to doing them?


Thanks a lot.

There's no universal way that angles are included in a movie. In some cases, it is a completely separate video. In other cases it's a matter of adding additional chapters with complex navigational schemes.

How a program responds to these oddities depends on the navigational structure. So you might be better to blame the folks that authored the film.

In my experience, Shrink tends to correctly interpret troublesome navigation more often that the others. You may not like the results though, but Shrink is usually reading the files correctly.

Angles are a "feature" that never really caught on, and for good reason. The navigational structure is troublesome. If you're trying to re-author such a disc, you're pretty much on your own. But Shrink will usually get you the main title without problems. Clone is not a re-authoring tool.

That’s pretty much what I thought. It’s the same deal with those “Title 3 (continued)” titles as well: when some movies do “Play All” for deleted scenes, they simply play a separate title that has each scene as a chapter as opposed to separate titles for each scene, while other movies keep each scene as a separate title and simply play each in succession for “Play All”. I figure that is why some titles appear fragmented in DVD Shrink.

I usually prefer low-level utilities that give you more control to “user-friendly” ones that over-simplify everything, but in this case I suppose I want something in between.

Interestingly enough, the only movies that I recall having “angles”, didn’t even use them for angles, but “hacked” them for other purposes.

Indeed not. That’s why I only use it for simple, straightforward titles, especially those that don’t require compression.



I was going to just get some +DLs for a couple of movies that have angles, but I would still have to add the deleted scenes from disc two. Is there another program that can do it? I read something about Rip4Me or RipIt2Me or something like that in some old angle-related threads while searching Google.

Well, that's authoring a new disc. If you want to keep the original menus and navigation, you're pretty limited in the available tools. If you want to create new menus and navigation, try importing the discs into something like TMPGEnc-Author. But rather than mess with all that, I'd just rip and burn a DL ISO, then create a second disc with the extras that you want.

I forgot to specify that I always leave all menus out; I just keep the main title and any deleted scenes or alternate endings (and space permitting, whatever else behind-the-scenes junk that fits). DVD Shrink works fine for everything expect movies that have angles (eg Star Wars).


But the whole point is to put the deleted scenes/alternate endings on the same disc as the movie—like I said, it works for most, but movies like Star Wars (III) have angles which trips up DVD Shrink).

It happened again. I got Unbreakable yesterday and DVDShrink shows it as being three separate 5500MB titles (obviously not correct). Again, the extras are on the second disc, so I am unable to combine the main title with some of the extras.

I’ve heard people recommending Fab for various things, but when I tried it a year or two ago I got the impression that it is not very good. The fancy, schmancy UI is like all those other crappy, cheap, useless programs that aren’t worth a dime—and are often cookie cutter apps (when multiple “different programs” are actually just the same thing with different covers), like all those find-it casual games. Plus, simply clicking a title in Fab would cause a slow update and redraw of the app’s window which was really annoying; like using an old computer without video drivers installed. Also, I’ve heard good things about Shrink’s transcoding quality as opposed to CloneDVD’s, and nothing about Fab’s.

How do other people accomplish this sort of task (assuming anyone does at all)?

Bah! It happened again. I am trying to put American Gangster’s deleted scenes on the same disc as the movie (again, no menus), but DVDShrink cannot understand the way that the extra stuff from the unrated version is implanted. It sees the disc as containing a 6.5GB title and a separate 7.25GB title instead of a single 6.5GB title with with the extra stuff inserted in where needed through commands (although it may be the other way around: a 7.25GB title with commands to skip the extra scenes). I know that CloneDVD is able to handle those kinds of titles, but cannot add things from other sources. I gave DVDFab a shot and it was able to handle it, but apparently the IFOs that it created were no good because other apps could not read the resulting disc, and VCL could not play it.

How in the world do people handle this these sorts of titles?

You might want to try DVDRemake on these types of dvds. There is a demo available.

On backups I never do more than the main movie, and have only run into problems with one, which was Deja Vu. So I don't see these problems enough to want DVDRemake or learn much about VobBlanker, VobEdit and IfoEdit.

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried DVDRemake out but it did not work. When I open the video it complains that the process failed.

I also tried dvd2one which seemed to work, but apparently didn’t. It processed the video just fine without complaint which made me happy, but when I checked the results (which were playable and fine), I realized that they had been compressed (even though they would not need to be if handled correctly). Oh! So close.

I tested Recode, but that does not handle multiple-version videos either.

This is so frustrating. It seems that I am the only person who does this sort of thing. :|

So far, DVDFab has come the closest, but I do not know how/what software to scan the resulting IFOs with to fix it so that it is standardized (I don’t think that FixVTS is applicable since it is the IFO, not the VOB that is the problem).

This may sound like a dumb question, but did you rip the movie to the hard drive first before trying DVDRemake? It doesn't include decryption/ripping capability.

I’m afraid so. I ripped the main movie from disc 1 to one folder (\A) and the deleted scenes from disc 2 to another folder (\B).

I think I should try a new strategy. Instead of searching for information on combining multiple-version movies, I should try looking for information on actual titles that happen to be multiple-version. The ones that I can recall right now have been American Gangsters, Unbreakable, Black Christmas, and Star Wars III. (Hehe, some memory huh? )

What software and version do you use to rip? I suggest you rip in full mode unless you know which title you want to rip. DvdReMake does check if the ripped files have any problems or not.

Well, actually, you can do what you want with DvdShrink. American Gangster's is a case of multi-story title. That's why you see 2 titles fall under Main Movie. The shortest time title (Title 2) is the theatrical version, and the longest time title (Title 1) is the unrated extended version. So just include the version you want and the deleted scenes from disc 2 in Reauthor mode and you should be OK.

Unfortunately while that method may work, it is not ideal. Doing it that way requires (1) knowing exactly what the differences are between the versions—which means having to watch both before burning, (2) assumes that the alternate versions are accomplished with simple chapter substitution rather than something more complex, and (3) it makes it like deleted scenes instead of allowing you to watch the alternate scenes inline with the movie.

When you see there is more than 1 title in the Main Movie, you're going to have to preview it anyway if you intend to choose only one of them. Instead of previewing it in DvdShrink, play the original with a software player, going through the menu selection to see which version you want. Then take note which title it is playing and select it accordingly in Shrink.

Alternate versions are actually interleaved and either have seamless branching (i.e. you cannot switch between versions while playing on one version) or multi-angle (i.e. you can switch between versions while playing) involved.

I’m already doing that.

That’s what I want, but Shrink doesn’t understand that, it sees them as separate titles at 5-7GB each. If I try to add them both to the project, then Shrink says that it needs 10-14GB. CloneDVD understands titles like this and handles them accordingly. Fab also understands them and handles them, but the resulting IFOs are bad. DVDRemake understands seems to understand them, but is actually (silently) just doing it like Shrink, and compressing both big time.

That looks about right. But why are you adding both titles? If I understand you correctly, you want both titles interleaved as in the original movie? If this is the case, you cannot use Reauthor mode, and you must rip the whole disc. Reason being is this movie is seamlessly branched - you cannot switch between the 2 titles while playing even if you rip it in movie only mode. You can only access it via menu.

This suggest they don't handle it correctly. Are you ripping in movie only mode or full disc?

DvdReMake does not shrink at all.

DVD ReBuilder Pro handles angles just fine.

I meant DVD2One

I’m pretty sure I already tried that one out, but I’ll try it check it again just in case.

It seems that DVD Rebuilder cannot add a title from another source, can it?

I want to add the deleted scenes from the second disc to the main movie.

No, it can't. DvdReMake Pro is the one to use. Would you answer the questions on post #16.

Which question?

I’ll use real examples to make it clear. American Gangster has an “unrated” version which includes some extra scenes. Bourne Identity (Extended Edition) has an “extended version” with alternate opening and closing. Star Wars III has multiple angles for some scenes. Hostle has a behind the scenes shot at one point that uses angles. High School Musical uses angles to show a different shot of the moves in the extras.

(I believe) they all use command tables and such to control things. The angle ones allow you to switch while watching, the alternate version ones play the whole movie, swapping in chapters from a separate title where necessary, then continuing on.

I always copy just the movie and deleted/alternate scenes. We don’t care for menus, behind-the scenes stuff, or commentaries (I only include them if there’s plenty of extra space). If there is an alternate version, I include both. With some titles like Hostle or High School Musical it’s easy because all of the content is on the same disc, so I can just use CloneDVD or another program that handles angles. They understand that there are not really two separate titles totaling 10GB, but rather one with some extra scenes that are spliced in. But with American Gangster, Star Wars III, Unbreakable, and such, the extras are on a second disc, so I need a way of copying that to the same disc as the main movie.

Using CloneDVD or Fab open a disc that includes another version in reauthor/custom mode. Select the main movie. It will tell you how much space it needs. Now select the alternate version. It will increase the required space, but only a little because it only needs to add the few extra chapters that are different. Now try the same thing in DVD Shrink. It will display them as two separate and full titles requiring double the space. Shrink can see them correctly in Full Disc mode, but then I can’t add the extras from disc 2.

I hope I made it clear (the Internet is—still—such a terse medium). I’ve already run into quite a few of these kinds of movies, and I’m sure there will be more. I’d love to figure out a way to deal with them once and for all.

But you said the IFOs are bad, so CloneDVD and Fab is not doing something right. The extra footage is actually the ILVU (interleaved) segment in the unrated version.

The multi-angle DVD actually has at least 2 titles, but since most of the segments are shared between 2 titles, the total size is not doubled. The only difference between the 2 titles are the ILVU multi-angle segments.

Anyway, isn't it better to rip just the Unrated Extended version and the deleted scenes, then combine them together with DvdShrink? Wouldn't this make your life easier? Besides, the unrated version has more footage not shown in theater. So why would you want to include the theatrical version? Are you going to watch again?

But if you insist in having both versions, then rip in full disc mode for the movie DVD and in movie only mode for the deleted scenes. Then use DvdReMake to combine the 2 - this will require major reauthoring: lots of deletions of unwanted stuff and additions of few VM commands. Basically, follow the same layout as DvdShrink's Reauthor mode.

The output IFOs are bad for Fab; it can read and understand them fine. CloneDVD seems to do both, but cannot add a title from another source.

Exactly. But Shrink doesn’t see it that way in reauthor mode.

That’s what I used to think too, then I saw Apocalypse Now Redux.

I don’t insist, I just don’t understand why it should still be so difficult. If only Fab could write IFOs that work in other apps, or Clone could reauthor.

Yeah, that's what it was designed to do - to obtain only 1 title. Since there's no more update, we can't do anything about it. I bet Nero Recode behaves the same thing as well.


ILVU titles are complex. It depends on how well the apps handle them. Since you say CloneDVD can rip both ILVU titles appropriately (I assume movie only mode?), you can rip just the deleted scenes (Title 3), then combine it with DVDRMP as mentioned before - that is, should you like to continue this project. If you're just curious, I guess I have already explained.

Indeed.

I tried DVDRemake last month, but it failed (it said some error occured and to check the log which was empty). I just gave it another shot today—uh, night. It still gives an error, but