Since the "re-release" of updates of CloneCD, they appear to have added new emulation in order to be able to backup SD 2.9.

Can anyone explain why CloneCD can't make a backup of SD 2.9 that works without emulation? (exception Asus 5224a with firmware 1.0). Is this by design? If not, why haven't Elby or Slysoft corrected this?

Blindwrite can do it, Discjuggler can do it, and Discdumper/Fireburner can do it (on 2 sheep burners).


Doesn't this seem odd to you as well?

yes it does ..... i have done extensive tests and found out that ignore,amplify, and emulate does not effect the backup the way it states...CC writes a sector to the backup for the CloneTray to recognise if Hide Cdr Media is enabled for the backup to run...

the backup without emulation should work also without emulation activated...

Only maybe if you activate emulation then and you used (ignore weak sectors) it will get really emulated...


Although I need to say that such an AWS-copy didn't work in my laptop drive with emulation on because it this drive is very bad in reading AWS-copies.... but the same copy works without emulation in every other drive.



So don't say that emulation for SD2.9 is needed.

I think there's a bit of unproven hypothesising going on in this thread!

true...


so would you please close this thread?

ghost_zero5, FutureProof

I see your reasoning,

Just because it works on your computer, this means that it will work on everyone elses computer. Good logic.

Well, it doesn't work on my Liteon 48125W, 52327S drives. Heck it doesn't even work on my 5224A.

I must have a bad copy of CloneCD.



Maybe some others might be having some problems with CloneCD too, but hey, go ahead and close the thread if you want too.

Look, stop taking offence at things I say and don't assume something like the quote in this post.

You made this suggestion "they appear to have added new emulation in order to be able to backup SD 2.9"

I know this not to be the case. The way that Ignore, Amplify and Emulate actually work are all different. The only backup that contains additional information is the Emulate version which requires the Tray Icon with Hide CD-R Media "on" to run the code on the CD-R.

My ASUS FW Rev-1.0 16x, 40x and 48x can all do SD2.9 in CCD

I'm not taking offence at what you say, most of it is correct, and I respect your expertise.

My point is:

The copies I made here will NOT run from my Liteon 166 DVD-ROM UNLESS clonecd tray hide CD-r media is enabled. These are copies made with ignore weak sectors !!

How can you explain this behaviour? AFAIK the 166 DVD-ROM can't read ATIP.

Therefore (my conclusion) CloneCD must be doing some hidden emulation. If you tell me that you have seen the full source code, and that no emulation exists, then I will be forced to believe you.

Is it remotely possible that the last time you shut down CloneCD tray, you left hide cd-r media enabled, and that is still running on your system? Please don't be offended by this suggestion, none is intended.

I do distinctly remember the announcement when CloneCD returned, they did indeed mention "added new emulation to copy SD 2.9" (or words to that effect).

Hi again. Your experience, along with other Litey owners who have posted here, tells me that it's hit or miss with SD2.9x +.

At one stage, philamber and I thought that AWS or Emulate could be 'stuck on' because my 24102B 5s07 worked and his didn't for pre-SD2.9x We don't think this is the case. It may be an upper/lower filter or .VXD/.DLL problem but that's just guessing.

Take a look at this thread and try the tests. Also, I can't recall, have you tried different media? Verbatim DLP superAZO from Dicky's Powerhouse stores is very good and well priced media. If I'm not wrong, you're from SA? There is a store there that also sells Mitsubishi branded stuff - best in the business for ASUS and Liteon burners but they're a buck each.

I'm picking up a very new 52 Litey this afternoon and will be testing it over the next week rather than the weekend, (you know, silly season and all that).

edit

(duh - Adelaide!)

Well, I don't think it's a media problem, I'm using the TDK (Green Box) R80's which are printable (available from Tricky Dicky - made by TY). I also have some Verbatim DLP's 52x Super Azo which I can try. I mostly use Liteon brand R80's (CMC 48x)

Your notion that emulate is somehow stuck, possibly due to a combination of VXD's and / or DLL's would explain what is happening. Perhaps it is a bug in CCD itself? (It seems to happen with 4315 4317 and 4319).

I also don't think it is a specific Liteon issue, because exactly the same happens with my ASUS 5224A (f/w 1.1)

Also, we don't have any Dick Smith Powerhouses in Adelaide, just the regular DSE's (we're not high-tech enough).

Thanks for listening

I didn't say that it is not possible...
but I don't think that what you said can be too true.


I thought to close the thread because my answer was a bit of supposing too...
I said something that should be and not what I know it is in this case....


But anyway I don't had this troubles...maybe they write some sector for emulating if ignoring fails...like BW5's autoplay...
but I don't think so here.

Which error-messages do you get if you try to run the game:
Do you get a .tmp file error
or do you get the message "Please insert the right disc and restart"?

if it is second then probably your drive can detect ATIP...because otherwise you normally get a .tmp error or it just stops running.

In DVD-ROM without hide CDR I get the TMP error

In CD/DVD-Burner without Hide CDR I get the Insert correct disk error

With Hide CDR enabled it works in all drives (I have 4 in the test machine - DVR106D LDW411S XJHD166S and 52327s)

An NO my DVD-ROM drive definitely can't read ATIP.

In my "other" test machine I have XJHD165H and 48161H and ASUS 5224A, and I get exactly the same behaviour.


I will do a virgin reinstall of WinXP, on the second test machine, and the only thing I will install is CloneCD 4319. If I get the same behaviour I will report again.

Life was much simpler with 5.25 inch floppies - all you needed was the latest version of CopyWrite!!

Later...

FP, I forgot to mention, I have done the DJ test, and it works fine on both the Liteon 52x, and ASUS 52x drives.

I guess there's no real point in doing the DiscDump tests, since DJ works just fine.

Contact Slysoft and tell them about your problem... because probabl it is really only a driver error.

Am I to understand that new CCD with "ignore" weak sectors in 2 sheep burners will still require CCD Tray even in non burners to emulate the sectors?

I may have misread somehow, somewhere.

no

FP, others

Well I did a whole reinstall including SP1, and then CLoneCD 4319 (SetupCLoneCD.exe = 2,367,155 bytes)

No other applications were installed, and only original Win XP drivers.

I had a VGA, MS IDE drivers, no audio, a 10/100 LAN, DX8, USB 2.0

Heres a current Log showing DLL versions

I 12:35:26 AM CloneCD Version 4.3.1.9 started!
I 12:35:26 AM ElbyCDIO Driver 4.3.0.3
I 12:35:26 AM ElbyCDIO.dll 4.3.2.3
I 12:35:26 AM CCDDriver.dll 4.2.0.3
I 12:35:26 AM ElbyECC.dll 4.0.0.0
I 12:35:26 AM Registered to: Me
I 12:35:26 AM Searching for SCSI/ATAPI devices...
I 12:35:28 AM Device Scan found 1 CD-ROMs and 3 CD-Writers!


I then made a copy of Jedi Academy (Oz-Pacific), and C&C Generals (Also Oz Pacific) using my ASUS 5224A drive, and my 52327S (transferred to the 2nd machine for this test).

I made no changes to any CCD settings, except that copies were written with ignore weak sectors.

Results:

Neither copy works without clonecd tray and hide cdr enabled - exactly as I reported before.

Conclusion:
I can't get clonecd copies of SD 2.9 to work without clonecd tray and hide cdr.


Anyone else out there, please feel free to report your success or lack od it please.



-----------------
My system:
AMD XP2400 EPox 8RDA+ 2xSeagate 80g 7200drives Radeon 9500PRO (with 9700 bios) Logitech keyboard and Logitech mouse
assorted optical drives.

as said contact SlySoft because normally it should work.

Hi,

I experienced excatly the same !

All backups made from SD2.9 games with CloneCd4319 need Hide CD-R Media to run.

I did a test with ignore weak sector and AWS, both backups did not run "alone" they only work with Hide CD-R Media.

My test devices are Plex. Prem. TLA#0000 F/W 1.05 / LiteOn LTC-48161H / Toshiba SD-M 1712.

In all mentioned devices the backups only work with Hide CD-R Media.

The same backups made with Alcohol do work "perfect" - NO Hide CD-R Media is needed, even in the CD-RW drives !!!!!!!!

So it must / IT IS a prob. form CloneCd !!!!!


hallo51

well I have no problems with same drive and an AWS copy... as you already know ... with CloneCD...

so it seem to be a bug... but some to depend on certain hardware.

You really should contact Slysoft and tell them about your problem.

mine got an error when reading with asus.
and Hide CD-R media on with my Liteon played flawlessly.

if your using alc120 you have hide cdr media on even if you dont know it

i have the drives you all are stating and am having no problems playing backups from clone cd 4319 with ignore weak sectors and not using clonecdtray..i use dameon tools or alc120 to hide cdr media. now my toshi sd-m1402 drive of course wont play these titles but that drive wont play any backed up sd 2.9 title without emulation. well actually thats not true clonecd is the only program that will get sims superstar to work on that drive using my external teac 5200U with the right settings (using aws etc.) a little quirkey but if i eject reinsert i can get the backup to play.

i think you should report your settings..hardware error control is very important so are other settings..some liteons cant do it well even the same models compared to each other..i must have ones that do. i do admit that clonecd is more picky with drives than other software seems to be (dj and alc120) i wont go into bw because i dont use it for safedisk.