According to GAMECOPYWORLD, the PC game Black&White uses the SD2 copy protection scheme.

Accordingly, using CloneCD v3.1.0.0 I checked FES only in the Read step of the backup process of this game. The backup copy properly installed. However, when attempting to play the game using the backup copy, the game froze on the very first screen and then generated the following message:

"Runblack has caused an error in ~DF394B.TMP~ Runblack will now close. If you continue to experience problems, try restarting your computer."

Restarting the computer did not help! However, using the original disk of the game worked perfectly with the previously installed game!

Made a second image of Black&White image using CloneCD with " Read Data Subchannel and Read Audio Subchannel" and FES checked. Backup copy works perfectly!

System Configuration:
CloneCD v3.1.0.0
Windows ME
Reader: Toshiba 1402
Writer: Acer 1610A

Anyone else encountered a similar experience?

What is the impact, if any, of selecting both "Read Data and Audio Subchannels" in the read process of CloneCD?

Weird The reading of SubChannel Data shouldn't affect the drives ability to copy SafeDisc 2 or not... To be honest I don't know why this is the case (well it could be B&W also uses SubChannel Data as a protection but I don't think this is the case). What I do know is that the latest CloneCD version has undergone some changes regarding SafeDisc 2 (well not SafeDisc 2 but error sectors) handling. See this newsposting for more info..

Thank you for your reply.

As you indicated in your reply to a subsequent B&W request for help, the Acer 1610A may be choosy when it comes to using an appropriate recording media!

To your knowledge, is there a media that is more suitable to the Acer 1610A?

It's hard to say since what I have read on user experiences the Acers are picky with different brands of CD-R's... Kodak Ultima Gold 12x seems to be a fairly good choice though but I'm basing this on other people's posts and not on my own experience...

I read your post MySens, followed your instructions with clone, my copy also works in toshiba not in my asus 50X cdrom. Do you have a cdrom other than your toshiba because it would be interesting to see if it play in a cdrom other than a dvd. What brand media did you use.

Thanks Da Bull

I used TDK 650MB CDR to make a backup copy of B&W. I've only tried the backup copy on my Toshiba DVD. I will try the copy on a friend's CDROM and post the results in this tread.

This is interesting because B&W is oversize and requires an 80' disc Neither is the 1610A known to be picky as it's Media Catalogue & OPC are excellent. There are reports of bad 1610As but I think the owners use recycled CD-Rs made from old tyres.

I think the subs thing was incidental to the game being written onto a 700Mb disc not 650 as stated - this would be very interesting if the disc was indeed 74'.

If the Toshi did the read, a reliable image would result with FES settings of Hardware & zero retries. More than 1 is asking for trouble and subs has the potential to introduce uncorrectable errors.

Euro (which Oz gets many of) & North American versions are SD2. I have seen other reports of subs used but again I think it's incidental to a good re-read

As a result of your reply to my post, I double checked the media that I used to backup B&W. Your observation appears to be right on again! Because I applied a CD label to my backup, I was not able to read the name of the CDR manufacturer. I now believe that I used a Maxell 700 MB CDR.

BTW, I welcome your courteous and soundly based comments. I am sure that many other members of this forum feel likewise. Thanks and welcome onboard.

B&W is oversized? I put the cd in drive and it says 647 megs?
How do you know, its oversized? First I've heard of this. If I was using a 650 meg and not 700 meg would I not get an error saying the cd is to small? I went gamecopy world and it lists B&W as SD2 and nothing else, nothing about oversize. Clony also says its 647 megs and no dummy files.

Thanks Da Bull

'Oversize' is a logical rather than physical 'protection'. The guard module looks to ensure that there are files or parts of files in specific sectors.

The Table of Contents on the disc points to these files and parts of other files that appear to be bigger than they actually are. Late model readers do not have any trouble with 'oversize' and illegal TOCs and should not be confused with 'dummy files' which can also appear to be large (sometimes >1Gb). If only one binary bit is pressed into the 80' sector, as is the case with some prots, then some writers will choke and blow the burn. It pays to have a burner that can do 80:00:00 or more rather than just 79:59:99.

When you view an SD2 protected disc in Explorer you only see the files necessary for the game to install & run. The TOC points to the relevant parts of the file system to ensure that an 80' disc is required to backup. In a hex editor, you can see evidence of some very, very clever code cutters.

I just used my Lite-on 2410B burner to back up B&W using the new cloneCD. had no Problems at all, only used FES and used a 74Min cd. you might want to check if your Acer is copatible with cloneCDs new SD2 error backing up thing?

Im also having trouble backing this game up, I used clonecd and when i load the image into daemon tools all i get is a brief splash screen.

Any advice"