Read this test on HD TV's
http://hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1107hook2/
I think I'll wait to go HD until I can be sure I'm really getting it! Not enough sets pass testing to even bother looking for one that does at this point in time.

Might it make more sense to go look at the monitors and make up your own mind? Are benchmark tests really going to tell you if you like the picture or not?

Obsolete info, IMO.

Anyone should know by now that HD READY is marketing bs and 1080p only supported by better devices.

Well if a set can not correctly deinterlace and perform 3:2 pull down its crap and between the 2 tests of the 74 sets tested only 10 passed. You could buy a set that passes if the model has not already been discontinued. Or spend 100's of hours at a retailer testing sets your self. What test method would you use? Eye ball it? I do not think so. With such blatant defects the test method used by Home Theater Mag is the way to go.

What? What makes it obsolete? The test was done last month.
The test disk was made by Silicon Optix's one of if not the best manufactures of video processing equipment out there.

Electronics were hard to by before HD. With most companies using crap signal processors in their HD TV's its way harder to choose a set.

All HD sets except CRT's display a progressive scan picture. Its the nature or the beast. If a set can't correctly deinterlace a interlaced input your nice shiny new 1080p set will be displaying 540 lines of resolution. Even a set thats 1080i still displays the picture progressively so the same thing will happen.
Same goes for 720p

If a set can't correctly perform 3:2 pull down you loose resolution to a varying degree plus end up with artifacts.

OK, some monitor makers are selling crappy electronics. Wow, what a surprise! Never heard of this happening before!

Right.

I don't say 1080p LCD is better just because it supports 1080p...
HD READY is marketing BS and so "FullHD" is too.

I rely on useful features like true 24p and the possibility to disable Overscan aswell as a relative low power consumption need.

My Sony 50" HD RPTV is not on the list and I don't know how it would fair, but the picture is spectacular so if you want "wait to go HD until I can be sure I'm really getting it!" it is really your loss. It is light years better than the 32" Sony analog tv that it replaced and that was a terrific tv for it's time. If you go HD, you will spend a lot of time going...WOW!!! Even 720p is awful good.

I agree with Dan, _chef_ and ricoman I bought my system about 2 months ago because it looked like the best picture when compared to many many others. TV and Blu-ray player are already yesterdays news as they have newer LCD tv's with LED smartlighting and such. You get diigging too deep and you will never decide which is best, or buy one and wait two weeks and something bigger and better will be out. No win situation IMO. I say just enjoy what you bought and live with it. Even some Blu-ray movies are not as sharp and crystal clear as others.

Did you not read this article close enough?

You are going to have to be a little more rational in your thinking towards HD, or you will never get in.

I'm more than satisfied with both of my HD TVs . . . the picture on my 50" plasma is awesome and the 37" LCD is crystal clear.

Well you must be the first one that did read it besides me.
Many things need to be right other than the ability to correctly deinterlace and perform 3:2 pull down but if these 2 tests fail why look any farther it's a waste of time looking at a set that fails. You better read your quote again as you have it backwards. "You should not judge a TV based solely on these tests (or any single aspect of performance)" This is is telling you many things have to be correct besides the tests we performed. Not these test do not mean much so disregard them.

Well you can all watch your HD TV's at half their screen resolution and pretend you are watching a quality picture as its OK with me. Of course a very few of you may have gotten lucky and are getting what you paid for.
You have about a 1 in 10 chance at best in getting what you paid for when buying a HD TV without using sound testing methods.

I will STFU now as its no use talking to rocks!

The tests done were quite extensive unfortunately not all HDTVs are tested. Nevertheless I appreciate sharing this research here, wonderwrench.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, paid 50% off MSRP back in April so even if it was in the list and failed on 3:2 test, the picture quality is far better than my old CRT so I think I'd still be getting what I paid for.

Anyway, what do you guys think of any solution for this? Early adaptors (including myself) enjoy the higher image quality on their HDTV however this research by Home Theater magazine suggested that not all HDTV in the market has the ability to process the image correctly.

I am not disregarding them, I am just pointing out the fact that it sound like you are making your decision solely based on this research and you shouldn't.

Some HDTVs do a better job of this de-interlacing process than others, but usually the artifacts caused by improper de-interlacing are difficult for most viewers to spot.

If it really means that much to you then get yourself a dedicated video scaler. The average consumer would not go this far, nor do I think they would want to invest the extra money. As for hardcore videophiles they have been using dedicated video scalers to improve the picture quality on high end displays for years.

Mine (a Samsung LN_T4671F) wasn't on the list nor was the model before it, so it looks like an older comparison. But by the looks of it a lot of Samsung's failed somewhere so it wouldn't shock me to find out mine fails as well. Still think the picture was one of the best available at the time of purchase and I am very happy with it. So do I really want to know?

Personally i think, if you're happy with the picture on your display, why worry to much about it?
Let your eyeball be the judge and just enjoy your purchase.

I agree, my Samsung HP-T5054 provided one the best Quality Picture I have notice so far. Samsung TV displays are reaaly the one to enjoy considering PQ for the price you buying.

Speaking of eyeballs here is an example of incorrect deinterlacing compared to
correctly done deinterlacing. This of course is using quality source material.

The correct one is indeed smoother.

So to rephrase my question, what's the solution or what should we do? Can we complain to manufactures because they incorrectly process the deinterlacing and 3:2? Class action?

For the average consumer, not much. Deal with the tools on hand at a reasonable price to maximize the experience. For ones that are truly hardcore than buying a dedicated video scaler would solve this issue.

Example: Depending on the features wanted prices range from $1500 and up.

Link: http://anchorbaytechnologies.com/pro...tems/index.php

Yup that would help out some but is not a fix all. A 1080i set that failed the deintelacing test would still loose displayed resolution even with a external processor because the set only accepts 1080i but displays in 1080p.
Reason being the on board processor would still be used to convert 1080i to 1080p. Also possible some 1080p and 720p sets may run the signal though the processor even though the input needs no processing.

I guess if I really wanted HD bad enough I'd get a BR or HD DVD player, several known high quality titles, Silicon Optix's latest test disk and enough food and water to last several days. Then find a reseller nice enough to let me move in for a few days.

Well of course not, it's still subjected to the native resolution of the t.v. or whatever display you are using.

If the t.v. can only display 500,000 pixels. You can't force it to display a 1,000,000 pixels.

This unit will just do a better job at down scaling and you will not see the issues as you would with a poor scaler.

Hence why the high end user uses a scaler. To maximize the full capabilities of the home theater system. More then what you would get with scaler that is in whatever other device that you are using.

Do you need something that has to have Silicon Optix's components before you will do anything?

Then you can use Calibre's Vantage-HD2 scaler box, it has the Silicon Optix's chip.

As far as I am concerned you are setting the bar way to high and you would have to be stupidly rich to be able to afford what you want.

You are missing the point. The problem with most HD TV's is that they will not display the input source without loosing resolution because the low quality processor used. Best case is an external processor will fix the problem. Worst case is will not.

I could care less what processor is used as long as it does the job correctly.
Using a quality processor would not raise the price of a HD TV by enough to worry about as many HD DVD and BR players all ready use them. Take Toshiba's HD-XA2 and Samsung's BD-P1200. They use a Silicon Optic's
Reon-VX HQV processor.

As far as setting the bar to high. Any product should be able to perform as claimed by the manufacture. Sure most product claims have so many holes and gray area's that you can't compare products by spec's. You need to compare them in person and decide for your self. The problem with HD TV's is the claimed performance aka 1080p, 1080i, 720p etc. leaves no holes or gray area's so to claim so they must do so. This is simply not the case as 90% of the sets being sold do not perform as claimed.

Walking into a reseller and trying to eyeball a HD TV is near impossible task as the source material is questionable, set placement sucks, sets are never calibrated correctly etc etc. So what seemed to look good at the store may be the the biggest POS they had for sale. Now add the fact that 90% of the sets made can't even display an input thats within its specified range correctly and you have near zero chance of getting what you paid for.

[quote=wonderwrench;
As far as setting the bar to high. Any product should be able to perform as claimed by the manufacture. Sure most product claims have so many holes and gray area's that you can't compare products by spec's. You need to compare them in person and decide for your self. The problem with HD TV's is the claimed performance aka 1080p, 1080i, 720p etc. leaves no holes or gray area's so to claim so they must do so. This is simply not the case as 90% of the sets being sold do not perform as claimed.

Walking into a reseller and trying to eyeball a HD TV is near impossible task as the source material is questionable, set placement sucks, sets are never calibrated correctly etc etc. So what seemed to look good at the store may be the the biggest POS they had for sale. Now add the fact that 90% of the sets made can't even display an input thats within its specified range correctly and you have near zero chance of getting what you paid for. QUOTE]


You are so confidently using figure chart %90 that make us believe that you are either engineer designer in these TV Manufactures or involve in manufacturing aspect of them.

I think we get the point that you don't have a HD monitor, and are looking for reasons to not buy one. Quoting numbers and test results is not a substitute for owning the equipment and seeing what it can do for yourself. Your figures may or may not be accurate, but they don't in any way reflect the reality. Which is that virtually any decent 1080 monitor will so completely blow away a SD monitor that it's plain silly to suggest it's not "worth it" to own one. Now, if you want to compare 720p sets to 1080i and 1080p, that's a better comparison, and tests and numbers might be interesting or valuable.