Understanding 1080i or 1080p - Club CD Freaks

**alan1476** · 02-12-2007

The number 1080 itself stands for 1080 lines of vertical resolution and the term implies a widescreen aspect ratio of 16:9. It is also my understand that the " i " stands for interlaced and the " p " stands for progressive. Now my question, what is the real difference in viewing of interlaced and progressive? I like most of you am new to this technology. I like to understand exactly what benefit one has over the other. Obviously the "p" is better but why?

UTR · 02-12-2007

Try reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080i

**platinumsword** · 02-12-2007

1080i and 1080p are both High Definition display formats for HDTVs. 1080i and 1080p signals actually contain the same information. Both 1080i and 1080p represent a 1920x1080 pixel resolution (1,920 pixels across the screen by 1,080 pixels down the screen). The difference between 1080i and 1080p is in the way the signal is sent from a source component or displayed on an HDTV screen.

In 1080i each frame of video is sent or displayed in alternative fields. The fields in 1080i are composed of 540 rows of pixels or lines of pixels running from the top to the bottom of the screen, with the odd fields displayed first and the even fields displayed second. Together, both fields create a full frame, made up of all 1,080 pixel rows or lines, every 30th of a second.

In 1080p, the each frame of video is sent or displayed progressively. This means that both the odd and even fields (all 1,080 pixel rows or pixel lines) that make up the full frame are displayed together. This results in a smoother looking image, with less motion artifacts and jagged edges.

**alan1476** · 02-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTR

Try reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080i

Thanks UTR: I already read that but here is the point that stumps me. After reading this it almost seems as if 1080p would be over kill at this time.

Quote:

To compare 1080i and 1080p, it is important to compare frame-rates. Due to interlacing, 1080i has twice the frame-rate but half the resolution of a 1080p signal using the same bandwidth, although, also due to interlacing, 1080i looks to be the same resolution, although with more flicker. Faster frame-rates are especially useful in sports shows and other shows with fast-moving action. However, on some flat screens that do not support interlacing, this instead becomes smeared or jarred artifacts.
Current digital television broadcast systems and standards are not equipped for 1080p50/60 transmission. Also, the majority of consumer televisions offered for sale are currently not equipped to receive or decode a 1080p signal at any frequency. It is less bandwidth-intensive to broadcast a film at 1080p24 than 1080i30, since 20% less data would be transferred.

**MegaDETH** · 02-12-2007

platinumsword, very good explanation.

**alan1476** · 02-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinumsword

1080i and 1080p are both High Definition display formats for HDTVs. 1080i and 1080p signals actually contain the same information. Both 1080i and 1080p represent a 1920x1080 pixel resolution (1,920 pixels across the screen by 1,080 pixels down the screen). The difference between 1080i and 1080p is in the way the signal is sent from a source component or displayed on an HDTV screen.

In 1080i each frame of video is sent or displayed in alternative fields. The fields in 1080i are composed of 540 rows of pixels or lines of pixels running from the top to the bottom of the screen, with the odd fields displayed first and the even fields displayed second. Together, both fields create a full frame, made up of all 1,080 pixel rows or lines, every 30th of a second.

In 1080p, the each frame of video is sent or displayed progressively. This means that both the odd and even fields (all 1,080 pixel rows or pixel lines) that make up the full frame are displayed together. This results in a smoother looking image, with less motion artifacts and jagged edges.

Thankyou also platinumsword, but after reading the Wiki article ( that may be old) I am still not sure if the 1080p platform is really that important at this time. I am very mixed up on this subject so please bear with me.

EDIT The whole thing is already explained here. My bad for not searching. I am embarrassed.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/f147/high-d...lained-232068/

**platinumsword** · 02-12-2007

No worries mate.

You have basically answer your question that it really is not needed.

Another aspect to consider is bandwidth and this is one of the reason why it is not being broadcasted to you via digital format.

The bandwidth, @ 60Hz refresh rate, required for the HDTV signals is as follows.

720p, 1280x720 (83 MHz)
1080i 1920x540 (93 MHz) only half of the 1080 horizontal lines are displayed at once.
1080p, 1920x1080 (186.6 MHz)

Note that the difference is double between 1080i and 1080p. This changes the costs significantly.

The formula to calculate bandwidth is

BW = [(TP x Vt) /2] x 3
Where BW = Bandwidth in Megahertz (MHz)
TP = total pixels (horizontal x vertical)
Vt = picture refresh rate in Hertz (Hz)

**alan1476** · 02-12-2007

Thanks platinumsword and all who helped. I understand now. In conclusion, 1080i is really old technology now. After learning what I know now, it would be benefical to buy 1080p compatible equipment. The price differnces are not that exorbitant anymore. Thanks again.

**platinumsword** · 02-12-2007

Correct, the cost differences are not that significant any more so you might as well future proof yourself.

CDan · 02-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan1476

Thanks UTR: I already read that but here is the point that stumps me. After reading this it almost seems as if 1080p would be over kill at this time.

Massive overkill, and something of a scam being perpetrated on consumers. It's a way of using numbers to make people think they are getting "more" and paying more. In fact, a 720p image with high bitrates can look far better than most of the 1080p material that's available. It's the bitrate, in other words, that determines whether you perceive a sharp image or not. There's certainly more than a few examples of 1080 material out there that looks worse than 480 with a high bitrate. Anyone who watches HD on satellite or cable has seen abundant examples of that. And let's not even get into the various codecs, and how one with a low bitrate can look better than another with a high bitrate.

And last but not least is the question of viewer preferences. Some folks will choose 720p over 1080i in blind tests for picture "quality". The same is true of 1080i vs 1080p, although here the vast majority of people will see no difference.

UTR · 02-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan1476

Thanks UTR: I already read that but here is the point that stumps me. After reading this it almost seems as if 1080p would be over kill at this time.

I'm not a guru on HD video but I have discussed the differences with the salesmen at a local high end video/audio store. They showed me video back to back of 1080i and 1080p and I couldn't tell any difference between them. They basically said the differences are very subtle and most people would not be able to discern it. Any more there it seems that 1080p is very common and doesn't have a huge price penalty associated with it. It is probably better to have it than not.

I have one TV in the house that can display HD signals and it only goes up to 1080i. It is a tube TV that is small (27") and with an upscaling DVD player it does have a better picture than our 36" SD Sony TV but I can see absolutely no difference between 1080i and 720p. With an HD signal maybe I could but since the screen is small I doubt it.

I have noticed a drop in HDTV prices lately so maybe next year I'll make the move and get a decent sized set. The trouble is there are so may models that use LCD, plasma and projection that I don't have a clue as to which one is better than the other. In some ways I think the projection TVs have a better picture but they are big and have viewing angle problems. The plasma TV's pixels seem too large for a fine detail picture. From what I understand they also dim over time. The LCDs seem grainy (pixilated?) to me. Especially with a lot of motion. Then I've heard of this new CRT based flat screen that is supposed to be the best of them all. Maybe the old Sony will see another year of service after all.

**alan1476** · 02-12-2007

Thanks CDan with the knowledge that I have gained here,when going to buy one of these expensive big screens ( cheaper lately but still expensive to me) I will better equipped to make a knowledgeable decision. Thanks for your input.

This not only pertains to the TV but also to the playing or recordable device that is sending the signal. Good information to have indeed.

**alan1476** · 02-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTR

I'm not a guru on HD video but I have discussed the differences with the salesmen at a local high end video/audio store. They showed me video back to back of 1080i and 1080p and I couldn't tell any difference between them. They basically said the differences are very subtle and most people would not be able to discern it. Any more there it seems that 1080p is very common and doesn't have a huge price penalty associated with it. It is probably better to have it than not.

I have one TV in the house that can display HD signals and it only goes up to 1080i. It is a tube TV that is small (27") and with an upscaling DVD player it does have a better picture than our 36" SD Sony TV but I can see absolutely no difference between 1080i and 720p. With an HD signal maybe I could but since the screen is small I doubt it.

I have noticed a drop in HDTV prices lately so maybe next year I'll make the move and get a decent sized set. The trouble is there are so may models that use LCD, plasma and projection that I don't have a clue as to which one is better than the other. In some ways I think the projection TVs have a better picture but they are big and have viewing angle problems. The plasma TV's pixels seem too large for a fine detail picture. From what I understand they also dim over time. The LCDs seem grainy (pixilated?) to me. Especially with a lot of motion. Then I've heard of this new CRT based flat screen that is supposed to be the best of them all. Maybe the old Sony will see another year of service after all.

Its sounds as if you are in my shoes, I guess along with millions of others. Thanks again.

bigmike7 · 02-12-2007

Yo all-

What a great discussion-

IMO - if you buy the best quality equipment you can afford at the time (recommended by say Consumers Reports) you can hardly go wrong in either format - but getting a high quality 720p vs a low quality cheapo 1080p - the higher quality will more than likely give you a better picture and last a hell of a lot longer-eh!!

_chef_ · 02-12-2007

IMO, 720p looks even better than 1080i.
But never underestimate the significant importance of the used equipment....

**alan1476** · 02-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmike7

Yo all-

What a great discussion-

IMO - if you buy the best quality equipment you can afford at the time (recommended by say Consumers Reports) you can hardly go wrong in either format - but getting a high quality 720p vs a low quality cheapo 1080p - the higher quality will more than likely give you a better picture and last a hell of a lot longer-eh!!

Hey BigMike7, it was a great discussion and I learned alot. It never ceases to amaze me what great members we have here. I am surprized noone had rated this thread yet? ( hint)

**Dee-27** · 02-12-2007

I think what you have to keep in mind is the difference between HD ready and Full HD.

There are TV's around that carry the label "HD ready" and some of those will be said to support 1080p. Some of these sets downscale a 1080 line picture to fit the native resolution of the set, which only has to be (1366x768) resolution and will have around 1,049,088 pixels.

Full HD sets must support a minimum native resolution of 1920x1080 where the number of pixels is 2,073,600 (almost double that of some sets that carry the "HD Ready" logo.

So don't assume that an "HD Ready" TV that happens to support 1080p is the same as a set carrying the "Full HD" logo, which will support 1080p natively.

**platinumsword** · 02-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by _chef_

IMO, 720p looks even better than 1080i.
But never underestimate the significant importance of the used equipment....

That's because 1080i/30 has more raw pixels for greater clarity, but with that being said 720p/60 refreshes it's pixels twice as fast. So basically, the question comes down do you want finer granularity on your display, or a quicker redraw of the action happening on the screen?

720p is preferred for the display of sporting events, and 1080i mode is better for watching everything else.

The difference is really hard to tell. It all boils down to your source in which there are many variables.

-------------------------------------

To add to what Dee it saying.

No matter the resolution of the source material, whether VHS, DVD, or HDTV, a fixed-pixel display will always convert, or scale, it to fit its native resolution.

If the incoming source has more pixels than the displays native resolution, you will lose some visible detail and sharpness, though often what you're left with still looks great.

If the incoming source has fewer pixels than the native resolution, you're not getting any extra sharpness from the television's pixels.

**Dee-27** · 02-12-2007

That's true platinumsword. The source material (incomming signal) has a lot to do with picture quality.

I was invited along to our local independant retailer (small family run business) to view a demo of Panasonics new Full HD plasma sets.

They had a Panasonic Blu-ray player running Panasonics Full HD demo. The signals were fed via HDMI to two TV's (both 42 inch plasma) One carried the HD ready logo and supported 1080p. The other was a Full HD model.

Although the picture quality on the HD Ready TV was very good. The picture quality on the Full HD set just blew me away. If i had the money for that set at the time of the demo. I would have bought it.

They also let us view a DVB-T signal (non HD) to show off the upscaling performance of the Full HD set. Again the quality was terrific. I guess these sets have very high quality upscaling circuits.

CDan · 02-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmike7

Yo all-

What a great discussion-

IMO - if you buy the best quality equipment you can afford at the time (recommended by say Consumers Reports) you can hardly go wrong in either format - but getting a high quality 720p vs a low quality cheapo 1080p - the higher quality will more than likely give you a better picture and last a hell of a lot longer-eh!!

Amen brother. I'm constantly saying: it's not what's in the screen, it's what's behind it. Further more, I usually recommend viewing monitors NOT with 1080 material, but with 480. Why? Because if the monitor maker has gone to the expense and time to create a top quality scaler and analog signal processor, it's a safe bet that the 1080 performance will also be top notch.

I can't imagine anything more disappointing than buying a LARGE screen monitor for LARGE bucks, then getting home to discover that it looks like crap with SD material. Let's face it, most of what we watch is still SD.

DirectFromCali · 1 Week Ago

dang .. you guys have all been a LOT of help .. is there a thread with links to good sales , or deals on HDTV's ? I'm looking to buy my first tv here soon ... and all this is a bit confusing to be honest ..

great thread too .

bigmike7 · 1 Week Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirectFromCali

dang .. you guys have all been a LOT of help .. is there a thread with links to good sales , or deals on HDTV's ? I'm looking to buy my first tv here soon ... and all this is a bit confusing to be honest .. great thread too .

Yo DirectFromCali-

IMO - bigscreens should be bought in B&M stores rather than on the internet - and get an extended warranty (General Electric puts out a very good one)-

When I got my 57" Hitachi Ultravision - I relied on Consumers Reports for the recommendations and then shopped 'til I dropped getting the very best price delivered with extended warranty - which in my case ('cause I live in the SF Bay area) - was from Video Only - and I have been happy and satisfied with it ever since-eh!!

DirectFromCali · 1 Week Ago

thx .. i plan on checking out all the major stores down here in So Cal , and asking a lot of questions .. thx .

02-12-2007	#1 (permalink)
alan1476 Moderator & Software Editor Join Date: May 2005 Location: Watching you Posts: 11,163	Understanding 1080i or 1080p <a href='http://adstats.cdfreaks.com/www/delivery/ck.php?n=a13febf7&cb=INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_HERE' target='_blank'><img src='http://adstats.cdfreaks.com/www/delivery/avw.php?zoneid=30&cb=INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_HERE&n=a13febf7' border='0' alt='' /></a> The number 1080 itself stands for 1080 lines of vertical resolution and the term implies a widescreen aspect ratio of 16:9. It is also my understand that the " i " stands for interlaced and the " p " stands for progressive. Now my question, what is the real difference in viewing of interlaced and progressive? I like most of you am new to this technology. I like to understand exactly what benefit one has over the other. Obviously the "p" is better but why? __________________ I do not provide technical support over E-mail or Private Message Please post your questions on the Forum Sign up to CD Freaks Register Here FORUM RULES Need some help ? Please use our search function first Join us on the CDFreaks Folding@Home Team! Read more here Get WinDWFlash HERE My Computer specs are HERE

02-12-2007	#2 (permalink)
UTR CD Freaks Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 319	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p Try reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080i

02-12-2007	#3 (permalink)
platinumsword Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,262	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p 1080i and 1080p are both High Definition display formats for HDTVs. 1080i and 1080p signals actually contain the same information. Both 1080i and 1080p represent a 1920x1080 pixel resolution (1,920 pixels across the screen by 1,080 pixels down the screen). The difference between 1080i and 1080p is in the way the signal is sent from a source component or displayed on an HDTV screen. In 1080i each frame of video is sent or displayed in alternative fields. The fields in 1080i are composed of 540 rows of pixels or lines of pixels running from the top to the bottom of the screen, with the odd fields displayed first and the even fields displayed second. Together, both fields create a full frame, made up of all 1,080 pixel rows or lines, every 30th of a second. In 1080p, the each frame of video is sent or displayed progressively. This means that both the odd and even fields (all 1,080 pixel rows or pixel lines) that make up the full frame are displayed together. This results in a smoother looking image, with less motion artifacts and jagged edges.

02-12-2007	#5 (permalink)
MegaDETH CD Freaks Senior Reviewer & Moderator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Watertown Posts: 3,231	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p platinumsword, very good explanation.

02-12-2007	#7 (permalink)
platinumsword Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,262	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p No worries mate. You have basically answer your question that it really is not needed. Another aspect to consider is bandwidth and this is one of the reason why it is not being broadcasted to you via digital format. The bandwidth, @ 60Hz refresh rate, required for the HDTV signals is as follows. 720p, 1280x720 (83 MHz) 1080i 1920x540 (93 MHz) only half of the 1080 horizontal lines are displayed at once. 1080p, 1920x1080 (186.6 MHz) Note that the difference is double between 1080i and 1080p. This changes the costs significantly. The formula to calculate bandwidth is BW = [(TP x Vt) /2] x 3 Where BW = Bandwidth in Megahertz (MHz) TP = total pixels (horizontal x vertical) Vt = picture refresh rate in Hertz (Hz)

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02-12-2007	#8 (permalink)
alan1476 Moderator & Software Editor Join Date: May 2005 Location: Watching you Posts: 11,163	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p Thanks platinumsword and all who helped. I understand now. In conclusion, 1080i is really old technology now. After learning what I know now, it would be benefical to buy 1080p compatible equipment. The price differnces are not that exorbitant anymore. Thanks again. __________________ I do not provide technical support over E-mail or Private Message Please post your questions on the Forum Sign up to CD Freaks Register Here FORUM RULES Need some help ? Please use our search function first Join us on the CDFreaks Folding@Home Team! Read more here Get WinDWFlash HERE My Computer specs are HERE

02-12-2007	#9 (permalink)
platinumsword Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,262	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p Correct, the cost differences are not that significant any more so you might as well future proof yourself.

02-12-2007	#12 (permalink)
alan1476 Moderator & Software Editor Join Date: May 2005 Location: Watching you Posts: 11,163	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p Thanks CDan with the knowledge that I have gained here,when going to buy one of these expensive big screens ( cheaper lately but still expensive to me) I will better equipped to make a knowledgeable decision. Thanks for your input. This not only pertains to the TV but also to the playing or recordable device that is sending the signal. Good information to have indeed. __________________ I do not provide technical support over E-mail or Private Message Please post your questions on the Forum Sign up to CD Freaks Register Here FORUM RULES Need some help ? Please use our search function first Join us on the CDFreaks Folding@Home Team! Read more here Get WinDWFlash HERE My Computer specs are HERE

02-12-2007	#14 (permalink)
bigmike7 CD Freaks Guru Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Lurking In The Back Of Your Mind Posts: 5,622	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p Yo all- What a great discussion- IMO - if you buy the best quality equipment you can afford at the time (recommended by say Consumers Reports) you can hardly go wrong in either format - but getting a high quality 720p vs a low quality cheapo 1080p - the higher quality will more than likely give you a better picture and last a hell of a lot longer-eh!! __________________ Mike Brayden & Lil Burnits Proud Cyber GranPa - 'CERCA, TROVA' - 'NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM' Be Kind To The Old Folks - For They Are A Reflection Of Yourself In The Future-eh!!! Work Computer = AMD Opteron 180 /2gb G. Skill PC3200 DDR SDRAM /XP Home-sp3 /(2) 250gb Seagate SATA Hard Drives /Coolmax CUG-700 watt psu /Samsung 202G /LiteOn 20A4P /Pioneer 115D /BenQ 1640 x/flashed to EW 164B /Gigabyte ATI Radeon HD 3850 w/512mb GDDR3/256 bit videocard /Planar 20.1" LCD /Nero 6.6 /DVDFab Gold Burning Computer= p4 3.06-HT /2gb G.Skill PC3200 DDR SDRAM /XP Home-sp3 /(2) Seagate 250 gb HDD's /Antec Neo HE 550 watt psu /Pioneer DVR115D w/v1.18 fw as Primary/Burner /LiteOn 20A4H w/vQP57 fw as Primary/Reader/Ripper/Disc Quality Testing /Intel Extreme Graphics /ViewSonic 20.1" LCD /Nero 6.6 /DVDFab Gold On The Shelf: (2) LiteOn SHM-160P6S as backup, BenQ (1) 1640, LG 4167, Liteon 1693, AOpen 1648/aap-pro

02-12-2007	#15 (permalink)
_chef_ CD Freaks Guru Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: @FX labs .de ...watching [Benders.Big.Score] [Tripping.The.Rift.The.Movie] Posts: 23,503	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p IMO, 720p looks even better than 1080i. But never underestimate the significant importance of the used equipment.... __________________ Started with burning capable optical drives (CD-R) in 1997. Bought optical drives from AOpen, HP, LiteOn, NEC, Philips, Pioneer, Plextor, Ricoh, Samsung, Sanyo, Toshiba and Yamaha. *'Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.' [Gandalf, LoTR]* Enable DMA with micrAp$0ft Enable DMA free at your will busTRACE => Upper/Lower Filters Util DevCon *HOW TO ... Delete the Upper & Lower Filters!* If you expect help then please start by using the powerful SEARCH.

02-12-2007	#17 (permalink)
Dee-27 Administrator and Reviewer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 8,161	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p I think what you have to keep in mind is the difference between HD ready and Full HD. There are TV's around that carry the label "HD ready" and some of those will be said to support 1080p. Some of these sets downscale a 1080 line picture to fit the native resolution of the set, which only has to be (1366x768) resolution and will have around 1,049,088 pixels. Full HD sets must support a minimum native resolution of 1920x1080 where the number of pixels is 2,073,600 (almost double that of some sets that carry the "HD Ready" logo. So don't assume that an "HD Ready" TV that happens to support 1080p is the same as a set carrying the "Full HD" logo, which will support 1080p natively. __________________ My Review PC & Optical Drives We came to wreck everything and ruin your lives, God sent us To become a member of cdfreaks.com just click here to join The Forum Rules The NEC/Optiarc F.A.Q. Liggy & Dee's NEC/Optiarc Firmware Page

02-12-2007	#19 (permalink)
Dee-27 Administrator and Reviewer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 8,161	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p That's true platinumsword. The source material (incomming signal) has a lot to do with picture quality. I was invited along to our local independant retailer (small family run business) to view a demo of Panasonics new Full HD plasma sets. They had a Panasonic Blu-ray player running Panasonics Full HD demo. The signals were fed via HDMI to two TV's (both 42 inch plasma) One carried the HD ready logo and supported 1080p. The other was a Full HD model. Although the picture quality on the HD Ready TV was very good. The picture quality on the Full HD set just blew me away. If i had the money for that set at the time of the demo. I would have bought it. They also let us view a DVB-T signal (non HD) to show off the upscaling performance of the Full HD set. Again the quality was terrific. I guess these sets have very high quality upscaling circuits. __________________ My Review PC & Optical Drives We came to wreck everything and ruin your lives, God sent us To become a member of cdfreaks.com just click here to join The Forum Rules The NEC/Optiarc F.A.Q. Liggy & Dee's NEC/Optiarc Firmware Page

1 Week Ago	#21 (permalink)
DirectFromCali New on Forum Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p dang .. you guys have all been a LOT of help .. is there a thread with links to good sales , or deals on HDTV's ? I'm looking to buy my first tv here soon ... and all this is a bit confusing to be honest .. great thread too .

1 Week Ago	#23 (permalink)
DirectFromCali New on Forum Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2	Re: Understanding 1080i or 1080p thx .. i plan on checking out all the major stores down here in So Cal , and asking a lot of questions .. thx .

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