Official 'War on Iraq' - thread

[Bulk]

Originally posted by Gheddafi
what about the mountain (sacred for American Natives) with 4 presidents?

lol, you wasnt comparing that to Saddam's statue...
was you?
lol

[Gheddafi]

no of course!!!
I was triyng to say that Statues ain't mean anything,
all the partyes/ideas/men when go to the power make their symbols.
A statue that collapsed does not involve Democracy begins,
I don't want to be misunderstood on the concept of democracy/freedom

The referement with the Native was for me essential to understand a possible causes in the medioriental area to politic attitudes such as Fedayn-kamikazes/Ariel Sharon-Tanks. If you impost the controvercy in evil/good in democracy/tiranny forgetting the politics ,with people getting no involved with theyr cultural differences we'll see Bad days again.

I hope I'm clear.

[nmpaulcp]

Originally posted by Gheddafi


yes but the people,He's still alive, the people is suffering/was suffering and will suffering if we don't act with brain not only with guns

what about the mountain (sacred for American Natives) with 4 presidents?

c'mon if Saddam did use the money got in the operation oil 4 food to increase his power the only chanche for Iraqi was
USa/Europe/Russia had 2 stop the money and change the way of acting.
how could a people after the war with Iran, the 91 gulf war, the 98 bombs from USA and 12 years of embargo stop Him?

Note the USA is/was still a member of Security Council

is it clear now nun è ma la bolletta costa e la famigllia m fac cumana mappina

It's obvious from the way they are dragging his statue through the streets the were not to fond of him.
If we didn't do something to stop him (Sadam) many more people would of died by his hands or his regime.
Anyone who builds a/many statues of himself is an ass.
Our monument is honoring Dead Presidents. There is no comparison.
The security council is a joke, The French were going to vetoe anything the Americans came up with regardless of what it was, You forget the French have a vested interest in Iraqi Oil. Thats why the did not want us in there. When all is said and done I am sure many Countries opposed to the war Had dealings with Sadam that did not follow UN guidelines.
The UN was supposed to have a meeting next month on disarmament, and the two contries elected to sponsor it?
Iraq and Iran! The UN is worthless.

[Gheddafi]

Ok,
someone wrote
"And personally I think anyone that builds Statues of Himself deserves a Good Beat Down!"

my topic was a "provocation"( not so clear and i'm sorry) about this,because every change of power means destroying the symbol
of precedent regime. I don't want to say that new power is the same as precedent,of course it will be better than Saddam's one but we have to wait to know what the Iraqi/Arab people think about it.
Otherwise it's all reduced to a conception of Indians vs Cowboys, and if we let all the people in medioriental area think they are the new Indian of the world, there would be no "winner"

PACE

[Gheddafi]

Don't think Un is worthless,
of course it's limited but in my opinion if USA left a big part of his power to the decisions of Un, the things can change.

this is a little lession of History
do you know what resolution are against USA?
they bombs the Capital of Nicaragua,
the invasion of Cuba
The intervent in Salvador
the support of many Golpes
they support Israel against the Un resolutions
Kyoto
and others

If an arab /people of the south of the world think they have no responsability because their power is unlimited, they will hate USA, USA are hated, no matter what you/we think about all USA
they see only this part of your country. I repeat I don't want to live in a fortress
the multilateral is our challenge, stop Bush!!

[Supi Suomalaine]

"the French have a vested interest in Iraqi Oil. Thats why the did not want us in there."

You forgot that the French have a huge ego problem and they must try to show that they are something great by opposing USA.

[Leetje]

Saddam kills 100.000 Kurds

Result:

-Silence- (did not see any jobless 24/7 peaceprotests)


Coalition forces want to end Saddams regime.

Result:

Bush killer, stop Bush etc...


No doubt in my mind who you are supporting.

[nmpaulcp]

Originally posted by Gheddafi
Don't think Un is worthless,
of course it's limited but in my opinion if USA left a big part of his power to the decisions of Un, the things can change.

this is a little lession of History
do you know what resolution are against USA?
they bombs the Capital of Nicaragua,
the invasion of Cuba
The intervent in Salvador
the support of many Golpes
they support Israel against the Un resolutions
Kyoto
and others

If an arab /people of the south of the world think they have no responsability because their power is unlimited, they will hate USA, USA are hated, no matter what you/we think about all USA
they see only this part of your country. I repeat I don't want to live in a fortress
the multilateral is our challenge, stop Bush!!

If we listened to everything the UN said, we would of had nukes belonging to USSR on our doorstep.
And Israel would no longer be a Country.

[dansmug]

Though I hate breaking promises, certainly those I made with myself, I'll react once more. It is my duty as a future historian.

To all of you, who want to use historical facts in your reactions, please try to be a bit accurate. I sometimes read things that make me go crazy. Everybody is entitled to his own opinion, but don't make it look like an historical fact.

[Gheddafi]

-the so famous Coalition forces are USA and Uk and some other countries we don't know because the democracy is acting withuot let the thing known by the people, the 91 was a coalition not this.

- in case anyone doesn't know UrSS is collapsed, but if we are serching another Enemy/Evil Force, the list is long

- the future of Israel must pass/passed from Un, there's a resolution that affirm Israel is a legitimate Nation, or have we to forget this?But there are resolutions against the occupation

- to the future Historical Guide sorry for make you break your promis:
USA bombed Nicaragua ,El Salvador's towns,Guatemala,Laos,Cambogia,Libia,Panama, Vietnam, Support Videla, Pinochet against the democratic election of Allende,and treat the South america like his Backyard.
Could you affirm this is not true? Every state make their delicts in the International Panorama (China vs Tibet, Russia vs Cecenia, Urss vs Afghanistan etc.) what we gonna do? "Shut Up or you support the Evil " or as members/partecipants of democracy react to this?
there's a strange Hollywoodian conception of the occidental democracy
- There was a lot of movements against Saddam, but the regime was supported by the West in his fight against Komehini's Iran, so No Tv, No Chapters from the Bible on the prime time, No Time is Over.

PACE


-PACE

[Flying Dutchman]

Originally posted by Gheddafi
-the so famous Coalition forces are USA and Uk and some other countries we don't know because the democracy is acting withuot let the thing known by the people, the 91 was a coalition not this.

- in case anyone doesn't know UrSS is collapsed, but if we are serching another Enemy/Evil Force, the list is long

- the future of Israel must pass/passed from Un, there's a resolution that affirm Israel is a legitimate Nation, or have we to forget this?But there are resolutions against the occupation

- to the future Historical Guide sorry for make you break your promis:
USA bombed Nicaragua ,El Salvador's towns,Guatemala,Laos,Cambogia,Libia,Panama, Vietnam, Support Videla, Pinochet against the democratic election of Allende,and treat the South america like his Backyard.
Could you affirm this is not true? Every state make their delicts in the International Panorama (China vs Tibet, Russia vs Cecenia, Urss vs Afghanistan etc.) what we gonna do? "Shut Up or you support the Evil " or as members/partecipants of democracy react to this?
there's a strange Hollywoodian conception of the occidental democracy
- There was a lot of movements against Saddam, but the regime was supported by the West in his fight against Komehini's Iran, so No Tv, No Chapters from the Bible on the prime time, No Time is Over.

PACE


-PACE

I have been reading your posts and maybe its the English barrier but explain to me several things. What is "UrSS" and is "PACE" your name or are you trying to say "Peace"??? Other stuff I wont bother to ask about.

I really dont understand most of your post but from what I can make out you are saying that the UN should play a bigger role??? I want to know where all these anti-Saddam movements came from as you apparently mentioned in your last point.

Its also quite funny how you mentioned that Israel should be at the mercy of the UN. There would be no Israel if it was up to the UN. And in case you didnt know, Israel is already a legitamate nation recognized by most of the world except the majority of Arab states.

Explain to me becuase I just dont understand your post.

[Gheddafi]

yes I'm trying to say UN must have The Role.

-It's strange that from NYC, the town where you live, you don't apreciate or do not care so much a multilateralism,multicultural politic and point of view (and you havent heard about the word Pace in your life)

- you didn't see the movements against Saddam (from 81 till 91).
Look at Amnesty, The Human Rights Organization,a lot of european Parties (even the Labour).

-IT's Strange ,isn't it?, Saddam was elected citizen Of Detroit but I had never seen the Bush or Rumsfield or repubblican party a bit worried and angry , and they were in politics

- mercy at Un? Israel ;
its future must pass from Un , otherwise the war is infinite

PACE

[nmpaulcp]

QUOTE]Originally posted by Flying Dutchman


I have been reading your posts and maybe its the English barrier but explain to me several things. What is "UrSS" and is "PACE" your name or are you trying to say "Peace"??? Other stuff I wont bother to ask about.

I really dont understand most of your post but from what I can make out you are saying that the UN should play a bigger role??? I want to know where all these anti-Saddam movements came from as you apparently mentioned in your last point.

Its also quite funny how you mentioned that Israel should be at the mercy of the UN. There would be no Israel if it was up to the UN. And in case you didnt know, Israel is already a legitamate nation recognized by most of the world except the majority of Arab states.

Explain to me becuase I just dont understand your post. [/quote]

I totally concure with you Dutchman! Israel would be nonexistant
if it was up to the UN.
The Countries that were so opposed to the war are now putting their own spin on things, agreeing that Sadam should of been ousted! Amazing how they do that. I think they are just looking to get in on the rebuilding so they can get their little greedy fingers back in the pot they were in (against the United Nations Embargo I might add ) while Sadam was in power!
It amazes me how people can be so anti-American and have (or think they have) so much knowledge about the United States.

[Flying Dutchman]

Originally posted by Gheddafi
yes I'm trying to say UN must have The Role.

-It's strange that from NYC, the town where you live, you don't apreciate or do not care so much a multilateralism,multicultural politic and point of view (and you havent heard about the word Pace in your life)

- you didn't see the movements against Saddam (from 81 till 91).
Look at Amnesty, The Human Rights Organization,a lot of european Parties (even the Labour).

-IT's Strange ,isn't it?, Saddam was elected citizen Of Detroit but I had never seen the Bush or Rumsfield or repubblican party a bit worried and angry , and they were in politics

- mercy at Un? Israel ;
its future must pass from Un , otherwise the war is infinite

PACE

OK, maybe my english isnt up to your standards but I do not understand how the word PACE fits in. According to its definition:
A step made in walking; a stride.
A unit of length equal to 30 inches (0.76 meter).
The distance spanned by a step or stride, especially:
The modern version of the Roman pace, measuring five English feet. Also called geometric pace.
Thirty inches at quick marching time or 36 at double time.
Five Roman feet or 58.1 English inches, measured from the point at which the heel of one foot is raised to the point at which it is set down again after an intervening step by the other foot.

The rate of speed at which a person, animal, or group walks or runs.
The rate of speed at which an activity or movement proceeds.
A manner of walking or running: a jaunty pace.
A gait of a horse in which both feet on one side are lifted and put down together.

Those "movements" that you mentioned were nothing but verbal protests. There was nothing to physically or politically challenge Saddam.


WTF?!?! I just noticed that you said that Saddam was elected a citizen of Detroit!! L L

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaha hahahahahha!

[Supi Suomalaine]

"- mercy at Un? Israel ;
its future must pass from Un , otherwise the war is infinite"

For some weird reason UN thinks that Israel is the bad guy because it defends itself against a terrorist nation (palestinians). I don't say that Islrael is completely innocent but the conflict is more palestinians and arab countries fault than Israels.

By the way, EU gives money to palestinians which makes the conflict longer. Without money palestinians wouldn't have even food which would force them to stop exploding themselves.

[Gheddafi]

Saddam had got the Key of the town Detroit,(honorary citizen)
hope you still will keep on laughin
it's the truth, search on the web or if you live in NYC, go to the New York Public Library and you'll find the newspapers. I think Fox didn't broadcast anything about it

You are right when Bush/ Rumsfield shake their hands with the Rais Saddam, The USA was his greatest sponsor in the war for democracy against Komehini so no one dared to talk about Saddam
There was even acts of the congress of the USA that ordered billions of dollars for him,Only at 1 May 1990 the US congress stopped the money for Irak (search in the Web) and then there was the Gulf War

Look at 1999 about the deal bettween Irak - France - Russia and the Multi of Cheney

search for Farzad Bazoft and Gerald Bull and the reaction for their deaths in Un and international Media.

The greedy fingers maybe are in the Multi where some of the White House Staff have worked for, the oil is of Iraqi people but strangely the appalt of the recostruction was made mounthes before and it's all internal to USA.Ain't this sound a little strange for a democracy?

@ Supi
How could you call the Palestine a Terrorist Nation? It's a Shame, a thing is to condamn the terroristic acts against Israel another one to call a Glorious People reduced without their Land and without a Future generically Terrorist and I don't want to answer about food/kamikaze.
What do you mean for longer? the destruction of one of the people of Israel or Palestine, or either (all 2)?If only the Military Strenght is important you think as in the Medieval Age


PACE

[Supi Suomalaine]

"How could you call the Palestine a Terrorist Nation?"

Because terrorism and its support is very widespread in Palestine.

"What do you mean for longer? the destruction of one of the people of Israel or Palestine, or either (all 2)?"

If EU would have stopped giving money to palestinians when they started their intifada (if I remember correctly it started after Ariel Sharon visited some holy place) their standard of living would have decreased very quickly. That might have put them to seriously consider stopping attacks.

[DoMiN8ToR]

I'm sorry to spoil the fun, but I think many have been discussing a lot of subjects in here, and it seems that the war is coming to and end, and also the discussions go more off topic.

I hope you all found it intresting to see the different views of others, in different countries, continents and all personal opinions reflected here.

I'm closing the thread now because I was browsing the topic. It has nothing to do with agreeing or not agreeing with the post of Supi Suomalaine, altough he has the honour to have the final word before mine