Yeah, but ya gotta feed 'em & they shit on the road. Smells too!

Stone the flamin' crows, no-one's talkin' to me any more! Wot's goin' on? Have I put I put ya off?
I'm out in the bush in Awstralia,
Here I am, sittin' under a gum tree rollin' a smoke an watchin' me cobber rubbin' two sticks together tryin' to light the fire so's we can boil the billy.
We gotta have a cuppa cause Hugh (Jackman) an Nic (Kidman) are droppin' in. Got no bikkies, but we have got some scones!
Hard to concentrate, got bloody ants crawlin' over me feet, roo's lickin' me toes, and bloody koala's shittin' on me 'at.
And the bloody flies, fair dinkum mate, they drive ya crazy. they're in yer gob, in yer eyes, in yer ears, drive ya bloody mad they do! Just as well a man's got duds on or they'd be in yer bum too!
All I wanna do is 'ave me beer, 'ave a smoke, 'an eat me tucker while I'm readin' this post DrageMester sent.
Still tryin' to work out wot Perpetuum Mobile is.
Sounds like it mite be eyetalian? Don't go much on them foreign lingos, dunno wot they mean.
So, is any one gunna talk to me or what?

Dude! You've been sniffing too much sting-go. Put the jerry can away & tie the kangaroo down, sport

Debro, you gotta be Aussie..........Better bait than pippies, right?

Debro was the first Aussie I met here

Come talk on Chat if you board
di

Phhhftt .. I don't have the patience for digging out pippies .... but my dole bludging sister loves nothing better than digging the buggers out and eating them raw.

I use a yabbie pump
Better bait, quicker .. put the females back

Where is Lonnie Donnigan?

Under the ground....or could be 500 Miles Away From Home

US$2 per liter in Seoul now. Two thirds of petroleum consumed in South Korea is imported from the Middle East.

There's actually a norm nowadays that prohibits cell phone radiation to make sure your brain doesn't overheat. I've also worked with MRI's and radio transmitters. It's very true that certain frequencies can do serious harm to your body, but not all of them and each invididual is behaving differently to the various radiation.


There already is a huge development going on to store hydrogen in safe forms. The trouble is the size and force of the exlosion next to the safe storage.

You could burn stuff like fuel, gasoline, pure oil, methane, propane, rocket fuel, napalm, kerosine, uranium-239, and hydrogen in any car, but you somehow have to contain that force and ensure a safe use for any car driver withouth a degree in science. You can expect great troubles with nuclear explosions or even hydrogen explosions going wrong.

As you can imagine there are a lot of different things to take into account. Money is of course the biggest issue, but also the required modifications. If you ask someone to invest $2000 to save $2 per year nobody would do that. If however hydrogen gel packs can just be plugged onto the fuel line of your car and it requires a slight modification of say $20, people start getting interested.

The drawback is also the current design of the combustion engine. It's not made to withstand all kinds of different energy sources. Back in the 80's they had cars that could running on gasoline or lpg. Drawback was that the lifespan of the engine greatly reduced when you used lpg. A normal engine could last 20 years on gasoline or just 10 on lpg.

These days even diesel engines outperform gasoline engines in emission standards and they can run even on sunflower oil if they want to. The technology is advancing as well are the various methods of fuel sources.

It's not the lack of other methods, there are tons of it. It's the adaptation of the massive amount of old engines which requires as less fuss (time and money) as possible. Then there's the adaptation required from the people themselves. If they don't see the added value or have little money to spend they will never invest in better methods. Why buy a $20000 Toyota Prius when you can get a faster car for half that money?

The likelihood of hydrogen cars replacing (100% or 50% of) gasoline or diesel cars is much lower than that of flash chips replacing optical (CD, DVD, Blu-ray, etc.) and magnetic (HDD, ZIP, etc.) media. Look at the greater picture and think of what has been introduced in your lifetime.

The problem is that it takes tens of billions in USDs even to think of introducing technology products like flash chips into the mass market. Nobody seriously thinks of anything for storage purposes unless technologists and capitalists first decide to invest and demonstrate. Until then, thousands of proposed specifications and standards are only ideas mostly doomed for oblivion. It takes even more for cars to change because cars require road, fueling, parking, registration and tax, insurance, etc. to function.

Asia and Americas should increase tax on car fuel to European standard. Petroleum today is ridiculously cheap even at US$5 per liter. After all, we need more doctors and beds for hospitals and more teachers and computers for schools and libraries.

Always great when people live in small countries where they do not drive anyway close to the miles we have to in the USA and say we should raise the price of gas to the point of making this country a broke country. I forgot little bush has alread broke us our dollar is worth almost nothing.

Yeah, (I think) to the majority of people in the world who own a motor vehicle, a trip of, say, 3000 kilometers would not even be contemplated.
Here in Aus, a 3 or 4 hour open-road drive at 100kph is the norm (depending where you live natch). But then, the other side of the coin, my car has a 4 litre engine. That costs in economy, particularly around town with stop/start driving. Open road, different story. My point is, if you lived in a high population-density place, you'd only require a tiny car with a milk carton capacity engine. they get probably 40MPG! But, it could not possibly last as long as my bigger engine, doing the same job. At 110k (68mph) my engine rpm is only 1800. A buzz-box at the same speed is around 3500 or higher!

Not true, if you take into account particle emissions (which pose an even more immediate threat to our health than the so-called greenhouse gasses). At the risk of repeating myself, but I have to get this fatal misconception about Diesel cars being more environmentally friendly out of people's heads. Where I live, more than 80% of new passenger cars sold are Diesels (and more than 55% of new cars registered are company lease cars, giving the driver no incentive whatsoever to lift his/her foot).

The first Google search I did, turned up this (Australian, should suit this thread ) article, which will help to understand the issue. I'm sure there's more scientific souces if needed, but this appears to be well researched. And I don't have too much faith in particle filters myself (the main argument brought up by Diesel car propagists). A filter is a filter and by definition goes down to a certain particle size, thus still letting through the finest micro-particles, which will also be the ones our lungs can't stop either. And even so, how many Diesel cars currently on the road have a filter? I don't think it will be 5%. Toyota here for example, still offers customers the choice of specifying one or not on their mainstream models. So you have to pay extra upfront and account for extra maintenance costs as well - not very popular with private owners I'd think.

Read in the paper this week that the first hydrogen "pump station" was opened here in Belgium, in a test-project with BMW (who've been working on hydrogen cars for as long as I can remember - and that's back to the seventies ).

G'day Mr. Belvedere, I'm glad you posted. I'm not up to speed and have no training on MRI, but understand the principle.
Don't know that I entirely agree with you about the mobile phones though. My understanding is that they are supposedly shielded to prevent the tx rf radiating towards the body. The actual antenna is between the shield and the phone case. For those reading who don't know, whenever the phone is on, it's handshaking to a repeater, ie receiving interrogation signals and replying to them. However, the case for or against whether the rf (radio frequency) is damaging our body remains a grey area. Personally, I think it could do us not good, but given the time they hav been in use, I haven't heard of many cases of cancer that are directly attributed to mobile phone use. But probably like you, I've seen (and had) rf burns...not good. At least it does not accumulate like others we know of!

Regarding the hydrogen issue...there are others here that know far more than I about production, storage and properties of the stuff, I won't comment on that. I do know there is much research taking place though.
I agree 100% on you engine remarks. As long as we use a 100 year-old reciprocating engine design and try to multi-fuel it, we're doomed. The other fuels used during WW2 probably worked for several reasons, none of which apply today. Those old engines had bugger-all compression, were low reving long stroke therefore high torque, had forgiving clearance tolerances, no electronic sensors or management systems, a carburettor instead of injectors, (I'm ignoring diesels here) and were not expected to last 10 years or more, there was a war on!

I investigated the possibility of using a rotary engine (as did Dr. Billings in the 60's I think), but the as the rotor requires lubrication, oil is the most obvious.But that takes us back to square one, the water content of the exhaust! If a man was rich enough, a rotary engine using ceramic seals would work I suspect. The ceramic coating being unaffected by heat, lubricated by water and having excellent longevity.
But for a home mechanic working in his shed..not affordable.

But, while-ever the world's economy revolves around oil, and there are still supplies of it...nothing will change. Our governments make too much money from oil to be serious about a practical alternative. Same as engine design..are you familiar with Ralp Sarich's story..look it up!

If we want to stick with the petrol engine, which we have to until better technology is fully developed, then what happened to direct injection engines spoken of over a decade ago.
The promise then was a greater fuel economy possibly as much as 50-100%! I think it was patented by a Japanese company but given the time scale + brain deterioration I can not be certain.
In the short term we will have to stay with the internal combustion engine but for the future who knows what will be the motive power.
As for diesel's, I agree that they are the dirtiest most polluting engines around today. Perhaps in time they will get better but don't hold your breath.(or perhaps you should in their presence).
I would banish all diesels from center's of population such that I believe they are only fit to be used in ships on the sea's.
I realise that the supporters of diesel will take me to task but having been involved in air quality sampling many years ago the difference between sampling near a busy road and elsewhere is alarming. The town site showed considerable oily soot deposits from these engines. Just think of the damage done to young lungs as the exhaust exits at ground level!
When I started to comment on this subject I did not think that it would go this far however great maturity and common sense appears to prevail.

Hello Cressida, you're not a Toyota are you? Hehe
I questioned the emission bit too. As far as I know they are much, much worse than petrol. There is a big push here in Aus, particularly up in the top end (Darwin, Northern Territory) to run diesels on gas. Because of the heat and humidity up there, a fungus or mould tends to grow in diesel tanks. It looks like snot. I fairly sure most of Darwin's goverment buses run on gas now.
Tell you what mate, I have a friend in Darwin who is a mechanic and is full-bottle on the gas conversion for diesel and petrol engines. He does them. It's too late now (10:20PM), but I'll contact him over the weekend, and let you know the the facts..ok? Thanks for the link too by the way, I'll have a read.

Tell you a funny story about diesel here.....it used to be about half the price per litre petrol was. Then the Japanese manufacturers started producing diesel powered utes, small 4wd recreational vehicles...you know the story. Our government in power at that time saw that all these people getting diesel and therefore avoiding the higher tax etc on petrol. Need I go on? They increased the taxes, and the oil companies increased their price as well.
Now we're at the point were diesel is 10 to 15 cents per litre more expensive than petrol!

G'day to you Weedougie, good to hear from you again. Guess you know my thoughts on all this by now, and yes, diesels should not be allowed on city roads. Here in Aus, they (trucks) are a necessity, but the majority of diesel 4wd's are bought for god-knows-what reason. Fair enough if they pull a caravan, or such, but they don't. They just pollute both air and roads.

Didn't the direct injection idea prompt the development today's ecu driven injection system? I seem to recall that from somewhere. Because it was so much more efficent than atmospheric aspiration (whew, that took some typing!) it kept evolving.

My only reason for starting this thread was to alert potential buyers of the water for gas advert floating around now, that it was a scam.
Given the oil price hike, I thought people might think it was a good idea, and therefore waste their money.
It has far exceeded my expectations, but if anyone wants to continue to discuss anything about the subject, that's ok. Let's go.
I am not an authority on the subject, but we all have an opinion. And I appreciate your comments, your knowledge is of great value.
I've fallen foul of some too, it has not all been rosey, but that's ok, that's life.

You can keep that idea. We are taxed enough already. I guess misery loves company? That tax only hurts the vast middle class and what they get in return from the government never makes up the difference.

If gas prices stay at their current levels in the USA you will see a change and it will happen rather quickly. GM has approved the production of a car that gets 40 miles on batteries (plus it has a four cylinder gas engine) and it will be in the showrooms in two years. This may not sound like much but it is the beginning of a wave of such vehicles, IMO. Getting 40 miles on a charge will suffice for most people's weekday requirements. Then as these cars prove popular the race will be on between the auto makers to supply cars with longer electric ranges. Then the real shift will begin to phase out gas powered cars. It will probably take 10-20 years but if gas prices stay high it will happen.

If you believe the hype, the world doesn't have 20 years.

Might be a silly question, but doesn't california have terrible problems with their power supply?
Brownouts, blackouts ... I can imagine that every citizen plugging in their hybrid/elecrtic car to charge overnight can only help that, right?

And electric cars still aren't the answer for many countries. Any country that relies on fossil fuels to generate electricity is just introducing inefficiencies into the the process of jumping in you car & driving around, while still consuming the same amount of fossil fuels, The difference is .. the pollution is generated at the power station, rather than where the car is located

Sure we do. There is a 100 year supply and maybe more, especially when future improvements in drilling technology is considered. It is the price of oil that will determine the course of future events. If gasoline stays above $3.50-$4.00 a gallon in the USA it will spark the car companies to deliver cars that can run only on battery power. The market and technological advancements will determine the time frame the conversion will take place. Also, there might be some other technology that allows less desirable plant material like switch grass to be turned into ethanol. It might be a combination of technologies that are used depending on the end user's needs.

California is the cause of their problems. They want the electricity but won't build the power plants in the state's borders for environmental reasons. There is massive amounts of oil off the coast there but they won't allow drilling even when the platforms are 100 miles off shore and can't be seen. California is becoming the equivalent of a third world country because of their liberal immigration, environmental and taxation policies. I have absolutely no sympathy for them. One day the sane people in that state that actually pay the bills will demand some accountability from their elected officials. If they don't then they might as well figure out what state they plant to move to in order to escape the socialism headed their way.

The other thing about charging overnight is that most plants are operating with a capacity level way beyond the demand during that time of day. It costs them the same to run the plant whether demand is high overnight or not because they have to be fired up and ready for the next day's demand. About the only power plants that can be throttled up and down quickly are hydroelectric because their generators don't utilize steam. By having cars charge overnight they can more efficiently use the plants and could reduce overall rates accordingly. There is enough capacity nationwide to charge tens of millions of cars overnight. Charging them during the day is another issue but this can be mediated with chargers that change the rates depending on when the cars are charged.

I'm not really that concerned with other countries. We have to do here what works here and other countries will need to do the same. The beauty of electricity is it can be generated in any number of ways and many are nonpolluting. People living in rural areas in the Midwest can have their own wind mills. People in the Southwest can have solar cells. Where geothermal works there will use steam turbines. Other parts of the country may use varying combinations. In tidal areas they can use underwater turbines or wave caterpillars. It can be generated with nuclear, hydraulic, coal, natural gas, peat etc. too. It is the Swiss Army knife of power sources.

I don't even want to get into the whole global warming issue. The jury is still out on whether CO2 is a big influence on global climate. Water vapor has a much larger impact than CO2 as does the solar cycles. There is a reason that Mars warms and cools with the Earth and it isn't a result of burning fossil fuels on Mars. Also, I don't really like the idea of mankind think he can control global climate. That is one sure way to really screw up the planet, IMO.

Average regular in Los angeles today (June 6 ) was $4.45/gAL.

With yesterday's surge in crude prices, get ready for $5.00/gallon in Los Angeles. It is around $3.85/gallon in Northern Virginia. It will definitely be well over $4.00/gallon next week.

Jumped 6c a litre overnight presently 134.9 l cdn here in TO .. this is unreal .. when will speculators realize that " we " can't afford anymore ..
Few people are making money on a F****** LOT OF PEOPLE !!!

Got them all cleaned up but can't afford to cruise anywhere .. how ironic