Hi guys.
With the price of petrol and diesel going thru the roof, I've seen heaps of ads for a system that gets gas from water.
Apparently you can run your car on it.
Anyone know anything about it?

Scam

Funny thing is that the [price per barrel decreased in the past few days so why didn't the stations decrease? I feel price gouging starting?

Noooooo, they wouldn't. Would they?

They say you can get hydrogen out of the water and run your car on it.

Regular engine will not run right on hydrogen, the cost to make hydrogen from water and all the conversion equipment will cost more than gas does now. Sell your car by a hybrid. Ads for magic converters are a scam.

Hydrogen is not a good alternative. Storing a tank of hydrogen in your car means one fender bender and your car could explode violently. As Jethro said, it is not practical right now to get all the conversion equipment on your car.

Yeah Wazzy, I agree 100%...but what if you had a power supply controlled by the Throttle Position Sensor so that if you lift your foot, no operation of p/s, ie no gas produced? No need for storage then. Thoughts?

So basically you're saying you "burn" the water in the same fashion we do with gasoline? Turning water into its components isn't an easy one step process and there needs to be something to power the conversion. I don't THINK this is possible with our current technology.

6,000 lbs of batteries, 300 lbs transformers, on a Yugo frame, why did I not think of this before....

Mount the whole lot on a Western Star chassis....is there a problem here?

No, according to their blurb, it's done by electrolysis. Remember, water is H2O...they seperate the H & O.

SCAM, SCAM, SCAM....Post some real world tech data, make me a believer. Like how many Cu.Ft. a minute it can produce, it would take a high volume to run /or supplement a small car so as to really do anything. I think you should do some research on splitting hydrogen and oxygen.

I just saw something on the news about this supposed 'water powered car' Apparently they are using a tiny bit of gasoline right now but it's getting like 100 miles/ounce or something like that. As Jethro says, "SCAM, SCAM, SCAM" I must agree.

Obviously this is done by electrolysis, but the way you make it sound, it is the same as a gas powered car. But instead of burning gasoline, you are electrolyzing water instantaneously. I haven't taken a lot of chemistry yet (key word, 'yet' i get another 3-4 semesters of it probably ) but I seriously question the ability to perform electrolysis, seperate the hydrogen, and have a car utilize it in the time it takes to push the gas pedal.

Wazzy you can but it is a ratio power in = power out, more in more out, the systems that bolt on an use 10amps@12volts are worthless, you might as well hook a fart tube to your engine from your ass for all the good they do.

Just imagine for a moment if you will the song "Happy Days Are Here Again". Okay now replace
the words with "Horse And Buggy Days Are Here Again". If all else fails then a friend of mine
had the perfect saying "Walking Ain't Crowded - Except Maybe In New York City". As ~Jethro~
said a person could always buy a hybrid car/truck but the draw back to that ideal is it would take
quite a few years and something like 200,000 - 300,000 miles of driving or more to recoup the higher
initial costs of buying a hybrid car/truck. An average Joe Schmo like myself that only drives around
12,000 miles or less per year with about 9,000 - 10,000 of that being mostly highway miles a hybrid
would never be worth while purchase to a person like me. If I were to drive that many miles or
more just in the city and hardly any highway miles than a hybrid would probably be a worth purchase
because that is where a hybrid really shines its higher gas mileage at in city stop and go traffic.
I made the decision recently to trade my gas hogging 17 MPG Mercury Grand Marquis in for something
that got better MPG and I'll have to admit I looked at the hybrids but just couldn't justify the costs of
purchasing one of them so I decided on a 4cyl Chrysler Sebring that gets 30+ MPG Hwy.

Here is a couple of pics of it taken last fall right after I traded for it.

Ok gang, the simple truth is YES..it is a scam.
The idea of producing hydrogen from water is viable and quite easily done using no more that a basic 12 volt dc power supply capable of producing max of 10 amps. The gas given off is called HHO or Kleins Gas. It is a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen gases in a 2:1 atomic ratio. When ignited, the gas mixture converts to water vapor.
There are numerous ways of producing the gas safely, feeding it to the air intake of the engine without pressurising it, and controlling the quantity produced.
That's the good news. Now for the bad.
The problems arise in many area's; the water vapor will quickly rust the exhaust system, and engine internals (valves, seats, rings, bores etc). blow-by will force water vapor into the oil, turning it into whipped cream. The modern electronic pollution and engine management sensors will be unable to cope with an exhaust system full of oxygen & water. The fuel/air mixture will be completely screwed up by the addition of hydrogen, the timing sensors??? dunno what they would do.
This my friends, is just a lead-in to the problems.....IT WILL NOT WORK AS THEY SAY.......
as Jethro points out....It is not worth spending your money on.

I was under the impression the energy required to break H20 into Hydrogen & Oxygen was more than could be generated from lighting it & as mentioned above, it's highly volatile, so it's not something you want to have stored in large amounts in the case of accidents.

Remember the Hindenburg

Seen a documentary a few years ago now, on an old farmer on the prairies somewhere, using a windmill to do the electrolysis and used the hydrogen on his car and farm vehicles... didn't give alot of info on the way it worked or how he stored it though...

Also I had designs for an onboard hydrolysis unit too.. guy in cal supposedly has been using it since the 60's. I drew them up in Corel, then tried out the design with some friends that are CAD nutz ... Obstacles..., water sloshes .. cuts off gas feed at the gas bleed off jets. Considered baffled tank as possible solution... humidity may be an issue around the gas intake jets as well ... electrode fouling unless you use pure de-mineralised water... hmmm getting costly to run now ...

Oh and the tank is jet grade titanium with tianium end plates and bolts .. I don't remember the volume though... not donna pop very easily... 3 Electrodes off seperate Caps off dual alternators...

and the Zep... was a bad mix of coating they used that was actually extremely flammable and what is considered to be the cause of the hindenburg goin down TBOMK.

The rebuild to acommodate hygrogen is (apparently) no worse than the rebuild for propane cept you might wanna O-ring the heads. Titanium valves and chrome-moly rings are standard. Stainless exhaust, someone creative could bypass the sensors with a bit of reprogramming...

Here they are using hydrogen cells on some busses now to test them ... seem to be working out OK so far.

Never got the chance to estimate the volume of gas per liter of water ... perhaps someone in here has experience with that formula?

Maybe someone with an engineering background could make it into something ... if the numbers are viable concerning the gas volume per liter of water

Everyone just get a bike LOLOL

Yes

One little sneeze and *poof* it went!

You can see past the end of your nose Soulmanathome!
It won't happen overnight, but it will happen.

Hindenburg
The Fire's initial fuel
Most current analysis of the fire assumes that ignition due to some form of electricity was the cause. However, there is still controversy over whether the fabric covering of the airship or the hydrogen used for buoyancy was the initial fuel for the fire.

The Incendiary Paint Theory
The incendiary paint theory asserts that the major component in the fire was the skin because of the doping compound used on it.
Proponents point out that the coatings on the fabric contained both iron oxide and aluminum-impregnated cellulose acetate butyrate (CAB). These components are potentially reactive, even after fully setting. In fact, iron oxide and aluminum are sometimes used as components of solid rocket fuel or thermite. The propellant for the Space Shuttle solid rocket booster includes "aluminum (fuel, 16%), (and) iron oxide (a catalyst, 0.4%)."

It's perfectly possible to split water into hydrogen and oxygen and then use the hydrogen (and possibly the same oxygen or just the oxygen found in normal air) to then generate power, BUT ... the amount of energy required to split water into hydrogen plus oxygen is the same as the energy released by burning hydrogen again (or using fuel cells), and there is always a loss in energy conversions.

So water is not a energy source, but you can effectively store energy from some other fuel, solar power, wind power, nuclear power etc., in water by splitting it into hydrogen and oxygen - but you cannot extract (chemical) energy from water.

I am not qualified in this field enough to cite facts and figures, but once upon a time, man could not do lots of things we take for granted today. All I wanted to do was a) make people aware of the scams advertised of late, 'specially with the rising cost of fuel, and b) start a discussion to make people realise that there must be another way.
We stick to petrol driven reciprocating internal combustion engines why? Because the oil companies don't want it any other way.
For all the "It can't be done" knockers, go to the Billings Energy site and have a look. You'll see I'm not really stupid at all!

http://www.billingsenergy.com/Research.html

It's not so much the "hydrogen" part of the electrolysis that's the problem, it's the water component that goes in the sump.
Think about it, they used to sell water injection kits years ago, where pure water was sprayed directly into the carby in metered amounts.
And it worked! Continuous decoke. The trick was not to enable it until the engine was at operating temperature, and turn it off 10 minutes before you shut the engine off.
Re losses, there is no such thing as perpetual motion, we all know that.
There are always losses within any system, elec, mech whatever.

If anyone is truly interested enough, this is the site to visit.
It covers all aspects of Hydrogen, where it is, what it is, how to extract it from water, it's use as a fuel, and so on.
The Hindenberg disaster is also discussed for those who quoted it as an example. they say it would have caught fire even if it was filled with an inert gas.

http://www.ecotecture.com/library_ec...ydrogen1b.html

Have a look, you'll be surprised...it's the future.