well it looks like nero doesnt live on my sytem so far but still get the same messge with expired serial no. and nero still says it not there problen said it was my vista which i dont beleive since that is the only thing that has messed up that i couldnt fix i think they just want me to use the paing phone service whitch wont happen cd & neo thanks for the links but they must not work on vista they downloaded but wouldnt run